Nuremberg 30-31 Mar 44
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Nuremberg 30-31 Mar 44
Eighty years ago tonight, at 2116 on 30 Mar 44, Lancaster JB736 piloted by Fg Off Guy Johnston of 103 Sqn based at RAF Elsham Wolds took off to fly a short air test before setting course for Nuremberg. Between then, and 0725 on 31 Mar 44 when WO Bill McGown crash landed his Lancaster in a Hertfordshire field some 96 bombers out of the 795 dispatched had been shot down, and another 10 had been written off in crashes. In human terms this amounted to approximately 545 aircrew killed, and around another 160 taken prisoner.
This was the greatest single-night loss in Bomber Command’s long war.
Nuremberg marked the nadir of Bomber Command’s fortunes in the first half of 1944, and although certainly the lowest point of a period of particularly heavy losses, unfortunately it wasn't alone: on 19-20 Feb 44 78 bombers out of 823 dispatched to Leipzig failed to return; on 24-25 Mar 44 (‘The Night of the Big Wind’) 72 out of 811 bombers sent to Berlin failed to return; and on 3-4 May 44, on a raid to a supposed ‘soft’ target, the Panzer depot of Mailly-le-Camp in France, 42 Lancasters out of 346 attacking the target were shot down – some 11.6% of the force.
To survive a tour of Ops in Bomber Command at this period of the war you had to be incredibly fortunate, or blessed - skill and experience may have played some small part, but a crew on their final op of a first (or even second) tour could get the ‘chop’ equally as well as a youngsters on their first.
In the immortal words of Laurence Binyon ‘We will remember them’.
For completion - all of WO McGown’s crew survived the crash landing, but Fg Off Johnston and five of his crew were killed when their Lanc was shot down by flak near Westerburg en route to the target.
PS…Mods if you this this is better suited in ‘History and Nostalgia’ then please move it. But given the significance of the date in the annals of RAF history, I think that it would get much more footfall in the ‘Military Aviation’ pages.
This was the greatest single-night loss in Bomber Command’s long war.
Nuremberg marked the nadir of Bomber Command’s fortunes in the first half of 1944, and although certainly the lowest point of a period of particularly heavy losses, unfortunately it wasn't alone: on 19-20 Feb 44 78 bombers out of 823 dispatched to Leipzig failed to return; on 24-25 Mar 44 (‘The Night of the Big Wind’) 72 out of 811 bombers sent to Berlin failed to return; and on 3-4 May 44, on a raid to a supposed ‘soft’ target, the Panzer depot of Mailly-le-Camp in France, 42 Lancasters out of 346 attacking the target were shot down – some 11.6% of the force.
To survive a tour of Ops in Bomber Command at this period of the war you had to be incredibly fortunate, or blessed - skill and experience may have played some small part, but a crew on their final op of a first (or even second) tour could get the ‘chop’ equally as well as a youngsters on their first.
In the immortal words of Laurence Binyon ‘We will remember them’.
For completion - all of WO McGown’s crew survived the crash landing, but Fg Off Johnston and five of his crew were killed when their Lanc was shot down by flak near Westerburg en route to the target.
PS…Mods if you this this is better suited in ‘History and Nostalgia’ then please move it. But given the significance of the date in the annals of RAF history, I think that it would get much more footfall in the ‘Military Aviation’ pages.
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31st Mar 2024, 10:23
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The campaign to deny the men of Bomber Command their own medal, in light of these losses and the courage of those involved who night after night climbed into their aircraft faced with the virtual certainty of their death, was spiteful. Every man a volunteer with an average age of 21. This country, or at least its political leaders, turned its back on their heroism and many of the veterans went to their deaths keeping quiet about their wartime contribution. Only in recent years has it become ok to admit to being involved and there are still those who believe the strategic bombing campaign was a war crime.
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
Interesting that no one has commented yet.
I seem to recall that on that night some 113 RAF aircraft were lost. There were several diversionary raids that took losses and at least one SOE drop that took some casualties'.
I'm always amazed and appalled at the number of losses in WW2.
I seem to recall that on that night some 113 RAF aircraft were lost. There were several diversionary raids that took losses and at least one SOE drop that took some casualties'.
I'm always amazed and appalled at the number of losses in WW2.
Last edited by DogTailRed2; 30th Mar 2024 at 20:44.
Take a look at the Wesseling raid too - 21 June 1944. They lost 28% of the force on that one (35 ac). The two East Kirkby sqns (57 & 630) lost 6 and 5 ac respectively.
Yes. 35 aircraft seems such a small number in comparison. Mailly-le-Camp being another. Casualty figures we can't comprehend these days.
At the going down of the sun, and in the morning
we willl remember them.
Dust in the eyes again.
we willl remember them.
Dust in the eyes again.
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Being well commemorated at the International Bomber Command Centre, Canwick, Lincoln. Also, last weekend being the 80th anniversary of the Great Escape we Tour Guides will have plenty of material to talk to our visitors about. As it's Easter Sunday, we are expecting a larger than normal footfall; rest assured, the sacrifice of Bomber Command, especially on this night, is well remembered. It might get dusty here too!
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In March of each year I give a special memory to an uncle ( pilot with 44 sqd ) who was shot down on the Berlin raid of 24/25 March 1944. He was 21. I remember him saying " I don't like flying at night"....................Having researched his career it seems that he was on his 13th or 14th op.
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The campaign to deny the men of Bomber Command their own medal, in light of these losses and the courage of those involved who night after night climbed into their aircraft faced with the virtual certainty of their death, was spiteful. Every man a volunteer with an average age of 21. This country, or at least its political leaders, turned its back on their heroism and many of the veterans went to their deaths keeping quiet about their wartime contribution. Only in recent years has it become ok to admit to being involved and there are still those who believe the strategic bombing campaign was a war crime.
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
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The campaign to deny the men of Bomber Command their own medal, in light of these losses and the courage of those involved who night after night climbed into their aircraft faced with the virtual certainty of their death, was spiteful. Every man a volunteer with an average age of 21. This country, or at least its political leaders, turned its back on their heroism and many of the veterans went to their deaths keeping quiet about their wartime contribution. Only in recent years has it become ok to admit to being involved and there are still those who believe the strategic bombing campaign was a war crime.
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
Perhaps it’s not too late for the handful of veterans still alive to finally receive the thanks of a grateful nation?
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It also contrasts badly with the modern predilection of awarding a campaign medal for every minor skirmish and even the new ‘Wider Service Medal’ for those who weren’t involved in these so they don’t feel left out…
My own medal count is 7 and I never had to face anything remotely like those brave young men did. A Bomber Command medal would have represented courage and fortitude that makes my attendance ones look like the mere baubles they are.
My own medal count is 7 and I never had to face anything remotely like those brave young men did. A Bomber Command medal would have represented courage and fortitude that makes my attendance ones look like the mere baubles they are.
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The losses were truly frightful.
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The lack of medal was and is a disgrace.
I've often thought about the losses issue - perhaps at the time, the losses were very high in percentage terms but for a lot of people who had served (or whose family had served) in WW1 they weren't so striking on a total basis. WW1 infantry on the western front suffered a steady drizzle of deaths every day due to artillery. Bomber Command lost 55,573 aircrew over 6 years - which is very close to the total British casualties on the first day of the Somme (tho "only" 19,240 killed). People just seem to have accepted it as necessary. They were different people and different times to today you have to say.
Very very brave men
I've often thought about the losses issue - perhaps at the time, the losses were very high in percentage terms but for a lot of people who had served (or whose family had served) in WW1 they weren't so striking on a total basis. WW1 infantry on the western front suffered a steady drizzle of deaths every day due to artillery. Bomber Command lost 55,573 aircrew over 6 years - which is very close to the total British casualties on the first day of the Somme (tho "only" 19,240 killed). People just seem to have accepted it as necessary. They were different people and different times to today you have to say.
Very very brave men
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I never understand the conflation of a, "war Crime" with those in the front line. They were carrying out the orders of the command. It was the government and the top command that decided strategy, not the crews. War Crime or not is irrelavent to the courage and dedication showed by the crews in doing their duty in the face of terrible and well known odds.
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Pilot Officer Cyril Barton was awarded the Victoria Cross that night. The only Handley-Page Halifax crew member to be awarded the VC. He was interred in Kingston Cemetery a few days later having died of his wounds. He was 22.
Totally endorse the issue of a medal for the RAF Bombing Campaign, 1939-45. Harris wanted it for the groundcrew too, a desire echoed by many of his aircrew who relied on the groundcrew's herculean efforts for their very lives. Whether that happens or not, it remains a blatant scandal that the Bomber Command aircrew had to make do with the Aircrew Europe Star, in common with all other air operations against occupied European countries up to the eve of D-Day, OR the France and Germany Star thereafter. The latter was issued to all involved within European Operations from D-Day, including those in the advancing rear echelons. Both were a deliberate slight against Bomber Command's uniquely prolonged and hazardous campaign which was the only way to take the war to the enemy's heartland for so many years.
Churchill's eventual and infamous distancing himself from a campaign that he had supported and encouraged for so long proved that, extraordinary as he was, he was in the end just a politician with an election to fight. Harris felt the slight and refused the ennoblement conferred upon his fellow Commanders in Chief of all three services at the time. The Army was appalled at the destruction wrought on each German city they advanced through and so the 'war crime' syndrome became empowered. What they didn't appreciate was that they had landed in France and advanced into Germany under total Allied Air Superiority because the Luftwaffe, its aircraft and AA artillery, was almost entirely within the Reich defending it against the Allied 24 hour Bombing Campaign. The Red Army certainly appreciated it, the USSR awarding him the Order of Suvorov, 1st Class.
The Allied European Bombing Campaign was a war winner, acknowledged by that suave noose dodging Nazi, Albert Speer, Reichsministerium für Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion, likening it to the opening of another front. Without it German war production might well have meant victory for them in Russia and the turning back of the Allied landings in France. Hitler's terror weapons would have done the rest...
Give them their medal!
Churchill's eventual and infamous distancing himself from a campaign that he had supported and encouraged for so long proved that, extraordinary as he was, he was in the end just a politician with an election to fight. Harris felt the slight and refused the ennoblement conferred upon his fellow Commanders in Chief of all three services at the time. The Army was appalled at the destruction wrought on each German city they advanced through and so the 'war crime' syndrome became empowered. What they didn't appreciate was that they had landed in France and advanced into Germany under total Allied Air Superiority because the Luftwaffe, its aircraft and AA artillery, was almost entirely within the Reich defending it against the Allied 24 hour Bombing Campaign. The Red Army certainly appreciated it, the USSR awarding him the Order of Suvorov, 1st Class.
The Allied European Bombing Campaign was a war winner, acknowledged by that suave noose dodging Nazi, Albert Speer, Reichsministerium für Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion, likening it to the opening of another front. Without it German war production might well have meant victory for them in Russia and the turning back of the Allied landings in France. Hitler's terror weapons would have done the rest...
Give them their medal!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 1st Apr 2024 at 10:49.
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"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Ref Cyril Barton. His Victoria Cross is on display in the Bomber Command hangar at RAF Museum Midlands. The museum is well worth a visit.
"proved that, extraordinary as he was, he was in the end just a politician with an election to fight."
I don't think bombing Germany was a vote loser in May 1945 - much more likely that, as a historian and author, he realised he was going to get a great deal of criticism far into the future so he just cut Bomber Command off.
I don't think bombing Germany was a vote loser in May 1945 - much more likely that, as a historian and author, he realised he was going to get a great deal of criticism far into the future so he just cut Bomber Command off.
55,573 is c.175% of the size of current Royal Air Force.
Percentage losses on individual raids were often higher than te - the most famous of them all Op Chastise resulted in a loss of 11 of 19 aircraft. the USAAF losses from the two raids on Schweinfurt in 1943 had nearly 20% losses. During Operation Fuller, the air operation against the 'Channel Dash', 42 of the combined force of 242 aircraft from Bomber and Coastal Commands and the Fleet Air Arm were lost.
Those who claim Bomber Command ops were war crimes are simply wrong. There was no international law to prohibiting it - there were several attempts but it was determined by 'the major powers' that such a law would be impractical given proposed things like warning the enemy of the intent to bomb a target town/city, and only bombing clearly identifiable military targets (including war materiel factories). Had there been such law, then bomber crews could have been classed as accomplices in executing a common plan and as such culpable under the Nuremburg Priciples. In framing the approach to the war crimes trials it was deemed that the actions of those planning and executing indiscriminate bombing by the Axis air forces were not liable to prosecution either. As regards the crews themselves, I suspect my late former WWII Bomber Command squadron CO friend was not the only one who was disturbed my knowing that in fulfilling his duty he was unavoidably bombing civilians but continued to obey orders..
If one compares WWII to WWI in the latter an award was of the War Medal and the Victory Medal irrespective of where the individual had served and for those serving before 31/12/1915, the 1914 or 1914-15 Star (and who didn't have excluding awards of the Africa General Service Medal or the Khedive's Sudan Medal of 1910) - plus for a very small number who had also served in the TF prior to the outbreak of war, and met its criteria, the Territorial Force War Medal.
I preface the following by saying the Bomber Command clasp was well deserved and long overdue.
Applying the clasp to the 1939-45 Star makes sense as that had to have been awarded before service could be accumulated for another Star, it was also the Star for which the BoB clasp was awarded. The stars were awarded for service in a theatre of operations not particular high level units. There was no equivalent to the 1914 Star for the WWII BEF and supporting RAF and Naval forces. The closest parallel is the 1st Army, 8th Army and North Africa 1942–43 (for 18th Arny Group) awarded to recipients of the Africa Star - only one of which could be worn (unless you were a Field Marshal or US 5-Star general
). As an aside on the issue of bomber crews and field HQ clerks getting the same award, my father told me he felt a degree of discomfort wearing his Burma Star, as he had earned it in actions at sea not in hand to hand fighting on land.
Issuing a specific Bomber Command Medal would have probably have almost certainly meant no Air Crew Europe Star - there would hence have had to be one or more other medals for those flying operationally over Europe on fighter sweeps, dropping agents, or Coastal Command crews laying (sea) mines or attacking shipping etc.
Bomber Command aircrew were certainly deserving of special recognition because of the undeserved approbrium heaped on them for decades and the obscene casualty rate. I would, however, argue there were also other groups who ran particulartly high risks deserving special clasps beyond those eligible for the Battle of Britain or North Africa ones: Chindits, Coastal Command, Submariners, Commandos who took part in raids, and Special Duty aircrew dropping SOE and other agents - I am sure there were others.
Percentage losses on individual raids were often higher than te - the most famous of them all Op Chastise resulted in a loss of 11 of 19 aircraft. the USAAF losses from the two raids on Schweinfurt in 1943 had nearly 20% losses. During Operation Fuller, the air operation against the 'Channel Dash', 42 of the combined force of 242 aircraft from Bomber and Coastal Commands and the Fleet Air Arm were lost.
Those who claim Bomber Command ops were war crimes are simply wrong. There was no international law to prohibiting it - there were several attempts but it was determined by 'the major powers' that such a law would be impractical given proposed things like warning the enemy of the intent to bomb a target town/city, and only bombing clearly identifiable military targets (including war materiel factories). Had there been such law, then bomber crews could have been classed as accomplices in executing a common plan and as such culpable under the Nuremburg Priciples. In framing the approach to the war crimes trials it was deemed that the actions of those planning and executing indiscriminate bombing by the Axis air forces were not liable to prosecution either. As regards the crews themselves, I suspect my late former WWII Bomber Command squadron CO friend was not the only one who was disturbed my knowing that in fulfilling his duty he was unavoidably bombing civilians but continued to obey orders..
If one compares WWII to WWI in the latter an award was of the War Medal and the Victory Medal irrespective of where the individual had served and for those serving before 31/12/1915, the 1914 or 1914-15 Star (and who didn't have excluding awards of the Africa General Service Medal or the Khedive's Sudan Medal of 1910) - plus for a very small number who had also served in the TF prior to the outbreak of war, and met its criteria, the Territorial Force War Medal.
I preface the following by saying the Bomber Command clasp was well deserved and long overdue.
Applying the clasp to the 1939-45 Star makes sense as that had to have been awarded before service could be accumulated for another Star, it was also the Star for which the BoB clasp was awarded. The stars were awarded for service in a theatre of operations not particular high level units. There was no equivalent to the 1914 Star for the WWII BEF and supporting RAF and Naval forces. The closest parallel is the 1st Army, 8th Army and North Africa 1942–43 (for 18th Arny Group) awarded to recipients of the Africa Star - only one of which could be worn (unless you were a Field Marshal or US 5-Star general
). As an aside on the issue of bomber crews and field HQ clerks getting the same award, my father told me he felt a degree of discomfort wearing his Burma Star, as he had earned it in actions at sea not in hand to hand fighting on land.Issuing a specific Bomber Command Medal would have probably have almost certainly meant no Air Crew Europe Star - there would hence have had to be one or more other medals for those flying operationally over Europe on fighter sweeps, dropping agents, or Coastal Command crews laying (sea) mines or attacking shipping etc.
Bomber Command aircrew were certainly deserving of special recognition because of the undeserved approbrium heaped on them for decades and the obscene casualty rate. I would, however, argue there were also other groups who ran particulartly high risks deserving special clasps beyond those eligible for the Battle of Britain or North Africa ones: Chindits, Coastal Command, Submariners, Commandos who took part in raids, and Special Duty aircrew dropping SOE and other agents - I am sure there were others.