War on woke
Brilliant. Well done:
Er, at what point did I mention the causes of the great war, I was referring to the so called experienced generals who insisted on throwing young men over the top into a line of machine gun fire.
Your 20 year old may be an anomaly Turin. I doubt the rest of them are able or willing. If you are confident you are in safe hands well good for you. I'm not at all confident in any of the armed forces. The generals are right. And I never said my children are bad. You have invented that, my children are mid 30s and 41. The twenty year olds I refer to are contemporary. As for ww1, you appear to be an expert on everything, how would you resolve that? How would you resolve Ukraine? You may have some answers, would you have the balls?
So I'M the expert now am I? What makes you the expert on the youth of today.? How do you leap from a discussion about how we treat people to solving WW3? Talk about strawman.
Millions died in the trenches during WW1 because old people thought they knew better.
Additionally, some confused logic: if a soldier is in the trenches he is not over the top
Good grief it's like bingo at an old people's home in here.
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You been on the turps Turin? I said nothing about not knowing what 20 somethings are like. I am very familiar with their attitudes and read daily, articles which confirm my opinions. I reiterate, you seem to be an expert, I asked you what you would have done differently to bring WW1 to a close? Talk some more? Irrelevant now but what about Ukraine? I didn't mention WW3. You may call me bigoted but it is attitudes like yours which have put us where we are and not the old generals.
You been on the turps Turin? I said nothing about not knowing what 20 somethings are like. I am very familiar with their attitudes and read daily, articles which confirm my opinions. I reiterate, you seem to be an expert, I asked you what you would have done differently to bring WW1 to a close? Talk some more? Irrelevant now but what about Ukraine? I didn't mention WW3. You may call me bigoted but it is attitudes like yours which have put us where we are and not the old generals.
No you didn't you asked me how I would settle WW3 (the conflict in Ukraine)
My attitude! Amazing, me? Tell me just how much influence over society I have then ask yourself, who's in charge? Those generals you seem to admire so much are far closer to the establishment than I will ever be, you can tell be the Ks and letters after their names.
They know a hell of a lot more about leadership of their troops and the waging of warfare than me, you or anyone else on this forum. I don't give a toss how close they are to the establishment.
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Bugged on the right
I would far prefer my children to join the outfit I joined and not today's aimless self loathing mess.
‘scuse me?!
Please can you clarify who within the armed
forces you include within this “self loathing mess”?
Well, BP, I for one would love my grandchildren to experience what a I did when I joined Dartmouth straight from school in 1966. The camaraderie and esprit de corps was exceptional, we had an aim and elders to help us achieve it and life was hard but very good. (Standfast the odd punishment run down to Sandquay and back!)
And yes, we had a course mate who was of Caribbean extraction but his ethnicity was never even mentioned - he was just Geoff, another makie-learnie pilot, getting on with the business of his chosen profession. The only trouble that we ever had was from the local lads, whose girlfriends were always keen to come to the Summer Ball!
The gentlemen who signed that letter have all had successful careers leading men and women of all ethnicities in some very difficult circumstances and are in a very good position to see what is happening to our services today. What we need now is warriors who can be inspired to achieve great things in dire circumstances. War does not discriminate, nor should we - but we need the very best recruits we can get, not those we need to “fill a quota”.
Mog
And yes, we had a course mate who was of Caribbean extraction but his ethnicity was never even mentioned - he was just Geoff, another makie-learnie pilot, getting on with the business of his chosen profession. The only trouble that we ever had was from the local lads, whose girlfriends were always keen to come to the Summer Ball!
The gentlemen who signed that letter have all had successful careers leading men and women of all ethnicities in some very difficult circumstances and are in a very good position to see what is happening to our services today. What we need now is warriors who can be inspired to achieve great things in dire circumstances. War does not discriminate, nor should we - but we need the very best recruits we can get, not those we need to “fill a quota”.
Mog
I find it extremely hard to believe that your description of the RN in the 1960’s was the nirvana you described.
The CAF is a lot better now than it was and better for it.
I remember in the very early days of diversity education, when homophobia and sexism were rife. Looking back, I shudder at some of the comments made.
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Professor Plum, you only need one. How about Wigston? I imagine he did so much damage to armed forces recruiting, it will take years to catch up. Why would any white male join an organisation which he perceived actively discriminated against him? Why would a person of colour join when they perceived they were hired, would be promoted and get good postings because of discrimination? And BPF, are you insinuating that Mogwi is deceiving us? I assume you were in the RN at the time?
Professor Plum, you only need one. How about Wigston? I imagine he did so much damage to armed forces recruiting, it will take years to catch up. Why would any white male join an organisation which he perceived actively discriminated against him? Why would a person of colour join when they perceived they were hired, would be promoted and get good postings because of discrimination? And BPF, are you insinuating that Mogwi is deceiving us? I assume you were in the RN at the time?
I'd be interested to know how often the best person gets the job anyhow.
t43562. You are right. We may have been discriminated against because we were from the wrong part of town, or wrong accent, school or whatever, but nobody at the top of the organisation ever told us that. I would hardly call instructing your Group Captain to stop recruiting 'useless white males' a degree of balancing. I call it an out and out racist and sexist insult. The Group Captain is the only decent person in the hierarchy.
Last edited by bugged on the right; 15th Feb 2024 at 17:52.
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My dad was a humble butcher, and my mum a humble housewife from the east end of London. I went to a comprehensive school. I left with 6 O Levels. I joined as an airman in the mid-80s and was commissioned 3 years later. I left after 26 years at a reasonably senior rank. No discrimination based on where I came from, my accent, my school or my parents.
No - the Woke have always been at war with society, but until recently it was a defensive war where they were hiding or being abused or both and now they feel like they don't want to hide and no longer wish to be abused. It feels new and an attack to many in the majority because they took their ability to deal out the abuse as a right. In America it was considered completely fine in the South for a bunch of Good Ol' White Boys to find a Black man and string him up because "he looked at them wrong and needed to be taught a lesson." Everyone knew and no one objected because "that's just the way things are." Come the American civil rights movement and suddenly the Good Ol' White Boys have to get out the dogs and the firehoses and firebomb churches and assassinate leaders to try to stop people dressed in suits and Sunday best dresses who are asking that a 50 question test with ambiguous answers not be a hurdle to casting a vote.
To put it another way:
Why would any person of colour join an organisation which he perceived actively discriminated against them?
Why would a white male join when they perceived they were hired, would be promoted and get good postings because of discrimination?
I do recall :"Get out of here, we don't want or need your kind" expressed at lunch counters, to use bathrooms, to sit on any seat on a bus, or use a public water fountain to take a drink, or go to a school to get an education, or to be fighter pilots. "Why are they always causing trouble?" also comes to mind.
"Those people" wanted to join to protect their country, to gain access to the things the Constitution promised them. They did it in spite of being actively discriminated against.
If the head start the Good Ol' White Boys have isn't enough to keep what they have I certainly don't feel sorry for them. They made the old rules and should be happy to live under them.
To put it another way:
Why would any person of colour join an organisation which he perceived actively discriminated against them?
Why would a white male join when they perceived they were hired, would be promoted and get good postings because of discrimination?
I do recall :"Get out of here, we don't want or need your kind" expressed at lunch counters, to use bathrooms, to sit on any seat on a bus, or use a public water fountain to take a drink, or go to a school to get an education, or to be fighter pilots. "Why are they always causing trouble?" also comes to mind.
"Those people" wanted to join to protect their country, to gain access to the things the Constitution promised them. They did it in spite of being actively discriminated against.
If the head start the Good Ol' White Boys have isn't enough to keep what they have I certainly don't feel sorry for them. They made the old rules and should be happy to live under them.
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I certainly witnessed sexist and racist jokes in the early part of my career.....commonplace in many different crew rooms I sat in from the early 90s to probably early 00s...saw many a waaf who wanted to sleep around held to a very different standard (and publically shamed) compared to male sqn members who did the same (many married - who would bring along det wives with them)....those that say it never happened are deluded or looking through rose tinted specs.
By the time I left last year I rarely if ever saw things like that and when I did they werre dealt with.
By the time I left last year I rarely if ever saw things like that and when I did they werre dealt with.
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