COLD WAR VETERANS
Thread Starter
Beagle,
How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me.
How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me.
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Or an overseas tour in Europe. At fifteen years you are cutting a heck of a lot of people out of the equation, six used to be the minimum service at the time, so why not go with six.
During the 70's I spent many hours flying in the Nimrod force. I had almost weekly contact with some sort of Soviet vessel or plane. On a number of occasions I was at 200 feet around the North Cape photographing their warships sometimes being illuminated by fire control radars. Do I expect a medal? NO. Do I think I deserve a medal? NO. I was well recompensed both financially and with the excitement these contacts generated.
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I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to have a career that spanned the Cold War, Balkans and then the sandy unpleasantness. As others have said, specific operations such as Aden had a GSM, but for those that sat in RAFG/BAOR and tainted their shreddies every time they passed close to the inner German Border, to think that was in any way comparable with spending months without proper sleep, living on the roof of a FOB in Sangin under constant attack by small arms, IDF etc strikes me as a little bit 'grabby'.
You spent 3 years on the p1ss, came home, probably with a tax free car. Your colleagues have a far, far, far, reduced prevalence of mental illness (NI and FI aside - read note above re GSM's) - That is what you should be grateful for.
You spent 3 years on the p1ss, came home, probably with a tax free car. Your colleagues have a far, far, far, reduced prevalence of mental illness (NI and FI aside - read note above re GSM's) - That is what you should be grateful for.
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Go to 2m 15s
cheekychimp - "Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years."
Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.
I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.
Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.
We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:
“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”
That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.
The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.
Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.
In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.
ExMM
Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.
I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.
Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.
We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:
“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”
That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.
The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.
Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.
In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.
ExMM
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cheekychimp - "Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years."
Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.
I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.
Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.
We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:
“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”
That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.
The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.
Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.
In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.
ExMM
Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.
I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.
Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.
We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:
“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”
That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.
The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.
Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.
In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.
ExMM
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An alternate view
I actually believe it wouldn’t be a bad thing if all people who served a minimum period in the military got a medal to prove they had served. Nowadays that could just be considered to be the LSGCM but I would start to give it sooner and change the name. Award at 5 or 10 years with a thin bar for every 5 or 10 years would seem fair.
I honestly think it’s a damn shame that some people served a full career and, through no fault of their own, have no metallic recognition.
I would suggest that those that think it’s a bad idea will likely be those that have some medals and those that like the idea potentially got none. What that would tell you is to offer a little empathy and accept that timing is everything.
BV
I honestly think it’s a damn shame that some people served a full career and, through no fault of their own, have no metallic recognition.
I would suggest that those that think it’s a bad idea will likely be those that have some medals and those that like the idea potentially got none. What that would tell you is to offer a little empathy and accept that timing is everything.
BV
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The vast majority here seem to think that it was only RAFG that took part in the cold war ( I had a great time in RAFG on fast jets as well). However, as a first tourist in the mid '60s sat in the right hand seat of a Vulcan with a 500kt basket of sunshine in the bomb bay after the QRA hooter had sounded, the cold war was pretty real. I have no strong opinion about a medal either way.
Just go on one of the commemorative medal sites, for a modest outlay you can get medals for just about anything remotely connected to your military service.
I've got loads now- nearly as many as a North Korean General.
I've got loads now- nearly as many as a North Korean General.
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I have been interested by the postings here, and I see a contradiction.
I did my 14 years in the ‘60’s to the 80’s and no way did I do anything to justify the award of a medal. However I did do 14 years service to the State even if it was well paid, but then so did a lot of junior Civil Servants in Whitehall who got OBE’s etc. So what about a classic British compromise? (fudge)
What about an ‘award’? GCSM, is an award, DFC is a medal. In my ‘70’s it is a bit late for me to care one way which way this discussion goes, but if you feel strongly about it, what about a Cold War Award?
Sure it could take the form of a medal, and if you wish to turn up at the church on November the 11th wearing it fine, but the grand kids may be impressed 20 years from now, when they find it with the veterans badge and the log books.
I did my 14 years in the ‘60’s to the 80’s and no way did I do anything to justify the award of a medal. However I did do 14 years service to the State even if it was well paid, but then so did a lot of junior Civil Servants in Whitehall who got OBE’s etc. So what about a classic British compromise? (fudge)
What about an ‘award’? GCSM, is an award, DFC is a medal. In my ‘70’s it is a bit late for me to care one way which way this discussion goes, but if you feel strongly about it, what about a Cold War Award?
Sure it could take the form of a medal, and if you wish to turn up at the church on November the 11th wearing it fine, but the grand kids may be impressed 20 years from now, when they find it with the veterans badge and the log books.
Not a fan of gongs, but surely the junior civil servant you cited would have done something to earn the OBE, in the same way a serviceman/woman should have done something to earn a medal.
Avoid imitations
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And throughout this whole, challenging period we remained poised, ready to spring into action like coiled sausages, if / whenever we might have been called to do so. To that end we conscientiously stayed in our green flying suits whilst in the bar, quenching parched throats with copious beers . . (albeit only until 19.00) . . surely this dedication to duty should be recognised in some way ? A medal to me seems absolutely fine 
Junior Civil Servants do not usually get OBEs unless it is merited - senior CSs on the other hand. Even then, it is quite a small % of the total no,
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
25 years as a Cold War warrior - no medals or awards of any description. Quite happy about - seeing as t9 the alternative which would have generated them.
Got rid of my uniforms after I left, don’t attend parades, so anything I was sent would be stuck in a drawer and puzzled over and discarded by anyone sorting through my effects once I’m gone. Since millions would be handed out it would have no scarcity or other value either.
Those who know I served know, I have no need to seek additional kudos by other means. I just enjoy telling “war” stories.
If it’s a choice of a medal or Pprune, I’ll stick with the latter…
Got rid of my uniforms after I left, don’t attend parades, so anything I was sent would be stuck in a drawer and puzzled over and discarded by anyone sorting through my effects once I’m gone. Since millions would be handed out it would have no scarcity or other value either.
Those who know I served know, I have no need to seek additional kudos by other means. I just enjoy telling “war” stories.
If it’s a choice of a medal or Pprune, I’ll stick with the latter…
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In the mid 60's, when Confrontation was ongoing, a Shackleton patrol around East Borneo looking for gun runners "earned" me a GSM Borneo. The same GSM Borneo as was awarded to a squaddie who spent a couple of months up to his arse in a swamp, dodging bullets. At the time it was an embarrasment. It is now in a drawer somewhere ( I think) collecting dust.
What are we old "Cold War Warriors" going to do with a Cold War Medal? Pin it on our pyjamas? Put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall? Wear it on Remembrance Day at the village war memorial?
Who would qualify? Just aircrew, or do you include the whole of the Armed Forces, on the grounds that they could have been on the receiving end of a bucket of Soviet sunshine? Let's leave all that to the Americans.
I would rather the Armed Forces concentrated on recruitment and equipment than pandering to someone's vanity.
What are we old "Cold War Warriors" going to do with a Cold War Medal? Pin it on our pyjamas? Put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall? Wear it on Remembrance Day at the village war memorial?
Who would qualify? Just aircrew, or do you include the whole of the Armed Forces, on the grounds that they could have been on the receiving end of a bucket of Soviet sunshine? Let's leave all that to the Americans.
I would rather the Armed Forces concentrated on recruitment and equipment than pandering to someone's vanity.
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Who would qualify? Just aircrew, or do you include the whole of the Armed Forces....
That said, describing some of my QRA times to civvy friends led to many incredulous expressions..."We had no idea you did that!" was a typical response. Out of the media, perhaps, didn't help the genpub to understand our 'Cold War' work.
Salute!
May seem funny, but after a few years of "not so cold war" in SEA, the U.S. cranked out a ribbon, not a decoration, but a "service ribbon". We who had been over there and got shot at and had actual decorations, did not whine and moan, but simply called it "alive in '65".
That being said, all must realize that less than 10% of service members actually shoot or get shot at. So there was no bad feelings about that "National Defense Service Medal", even tho it wasn't a real "medal".
The real cold war involving nuclear armed planes and missile silos are a different matter, and to this day I cannot come up with some way to honor the millions that stood alert above and below the ground and sea, fixed the jets, watched radar screens for hours and so forth.
We should tip our hats and simply say "thanks".
Gums sends...
May seem funny, but after a few years of "not so cold war" in SEA, the U.S. cranked out a ribbon, not a decoration, but a "service ribbon". We who had been over there and got shot at and had actual decorations, did not whine and moan, but simply called it "alive in '65".
That being said, all must realize that less than 10% of service members actually shoot or get shot at. So there was no bad feelings about that "National Defense Service Medal", even tho it wasn't a real "medal".
The real cold war involving nuclear armed planes and missile silos are a different matter, and to this day I cannot come up with some way to honor the millions that stood alert above and below the ground and sea, fixed the jets, watched radar screens for hours and so forth.
We should tip our hats and simply say "thanks".
Gums sends...
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