Tornado wing
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Tornado wing
Am a civvie eng and was discussing with a mate the other day as to whether or not there is any structural difference between the wing on the GR4 and the F.3, i.e size/shape/strength, would i be correct in saying that there IS differences in the method of sweep control between the two types? Any info would help,
Regards, Eng
P.S Thanks to the 2 jockeys who did the flyby at GLA at about 2000 hours on the 15/08 in the F.3 - I was standing on the nose of one of our 737's in the hangar staring at a beautiful sunset when the boys did what they do best - next time use the 'burners it looks much sweeter!!!!
Regards, Eng
P.S Thanks to the 2 jockeys who did the flyby at GLA at about 2000 hours on the 15/08 in the F.3 - I was standing on the nose of one of our 737's in the hangar staring at a beautiful sunset when the boys did what they do best - next time use the 'burners it looks much sweeter!!!!
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In my limited knowledge as just an operator, I believe they're the same. Both too small!
And the circuit breaker for the auto-wing sweep has been tripped on both types, therefore requiring manual adjustment via the 'capacity lever'.
Auto works fine on the export version apparently.
How come the wing stores always point forward? Perhaps the wind blast blows them straight?
And the circuit breaker for the auto-wing sweep has been tripped on both types, therefore requiring manual adjustment via the 'capacity lever'.
Auto works fine on the export version apparently.
How come the wing stores always point forward? Perhaps the wind blast blows them straight?
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They are indeed one and the same - they even have all the same hard points (although some are blanked off F3 outers!).
Now, with that extra fuel tank in the fuselage and a longer, more aerodynamic body plus it's bigger engines, wouldn't the F3 make a great bomber????!!!!!
Now, with that extra fuel tank in the fuselage and a longer, more aerodynamic body plus it's bigger engines, wouldn't the F3 make a great bomber????!!!!!
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As Moggie said, same but with hardpoints blanked off on F3. F3s were delivered with working auto-wingsweep and auto slats/flaps. RAF then disabled them on arrival. Don't know why, they were bloody good, except when trying to do a flypast in box-4 formation in Saudi at just the speed where they sweep. One F3 was in 25 wing, one in 45 and the other 2 were sweeping in opposite directions. Nice story, don't know if it's true. Other story was AOC plus staff officer in boot collecting last F3 from the factory. Heard them asking on the radio how to turn the auto wingsweep, slats, flaps etc on. Guess they hadn't read the aircrew manual. How did I hear them on the radio? I was in the spare "last F3" and we departed a few hours after the press had gone home!
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I read somewhere that some F3's had their outer hardpoints 'unblanked' to allow them to carry ECM pods and that kinda thing on GR4-style outer pylons.
Was I dreaming again? (It can get kinda desperate here in Wales for an Englishman!)
Al
Was I dreaming again? (It can get kinda desperate here in Wales for an Englishman!)
Al
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Alandhall,
Many F3's do have 4 working hardpoints, as you say. The only difference as far as I am aware is that the Gr has the ability to have Kruger flaps in the wing nib (which I beleive is wire locked off) where as the F3 has other stuff in the nib preventing it
Many F3's do have 4 working hardpoints, as you say. The only difference as far as I am aware is that the Gr has the ability to have Kruger flaps in the wing nib (which I beleive is wire locked off) where as the F3 has other stuff in the nib preventing it
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The wings are essentially identical, the F3's were delivered without the outter pylon fittings and turning link that attaches the inners to the outters on a GR. I recall wings being swopped between varients (with bits added or subtracted to make compatible) in the past. Also the first ADV prototypes had the outter pylon mechanism left in as it cost to remove them from what were production GR wings. Having the extra mass in the outter of the wing also helps with wing bending and FI consumption.
Regarding the auto w/s & slats or AWSMDS (have a guess) as it was called, recall an FI issue here as well (although memory could be fading). The FI meter monitors w/s position, some positions are worse than others when pulling the wings off so they would rather you fly in a known position as you ..er 'exercise the system' instead of the wings cycling about with speed and AOA during a manouvre.
Regarding the auto w/s & slats or AWSMDS (have a guess) as it was called, recall an FI issue here as well (although memory could be fading). The FI meter monitors w/s position, some positions are worse than others when pulling the wings off so they would rather you fly in a known position as you ..er 'exercise the system' instead of the wings cycling about with speed and AOA during a manouvre.
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Just a quick Q on this subject:
For a complete ignoramus (that is myself) am I correct in understanding that the F3 & GR4 variants have the Auto Sweep feature built in but is purposely disabled to prevent its use on the RAF machines?
I am not a techie of any sort but would like to settle a rather intense debate regarding the Auto Sweep capability of this aircraft.
Many thanks.
For a complete ignoramus (that is myself) am I correct in understanding that the F3 & GR4 variants have the Auto Sweep feature built in but is purposely disabled to prevent its use on the RAF machines?
I am not a techie of any sort but would like to settle a rather intense debate regarding the Auto Sweep capability of this aircraft.
Many thanks.
The F3 is now muted to be a more capable platform than the Typhoon that is supposed to replace it!
After all who needs a close in dogfighter these days when a BVR missile can be launched from afar and achieve the same result??
Tranche 3 needs to be canx with MR4a launching Storm Shadow etc not cold war relics protecting UK jobs!!!
After all who needs a close in dogfighter these days when a BVR missile can be launched from afar and achieve the same result??
Tranche 3 needs to be canx with MR4a launching Storm Shadow etc not cold war relics protecting UK jobs!!!
ABIW.. he he not any more me old. In your Mob now!
As I said most people other than FJ boys no longer see the need for the relics. Money could be better spent on C17 / A400m / ISTAR / UCAVs etc. The man in the seat is now the weak link....
As I said most people other than FJ boys no longer see the need for the relics. Money could be better spent on C17 / A400m / ISTAR / UCAVs etc. The man in the seat is now the weak link....
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How come the wing stores always point forward? Perhaps the wind blast blows them straight?
AWSMD to my knowledge was enabled on F3 and GR's... Ahh the good old Kreuger flap !
Why was Auto-sweep disabled? Does disabling it make the aircraft difficult to fly?
An ex-MiG-23 pilot from the IAF once told me that the lack of auto sweep makes the flogger very tough to handle, which is why my question.
An ex-MiG-23 pilot from the IAF once told me that the lack of auto sweep makes the flogger very tough to handle, which is why my question.
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AWSMD was fitted to all Tornado aircraft.
Sauds use systems as designed because they expect them to work (no point paying for something ad then Lim;ing the aircraft).
On ADV it is known that AWS affects fuel consumption due to drag reduction.
AWSMD was removed early doors because RAF crews did not like the wings moving automatically.
AWSMD reduces crew workload - fact.
ADV and IDS AWS is different, ADV is more complex.
AWSMD is cleared for use by Panavia, boxes are probably in Stafford somewhere (or maye they were sold to the Sauds?)
Sauds use systems as designed because they expect them to work (no point paying for something ad then Lim;ing the aircraft).
On ADV it is known that AWS affects fuel consumption due to drag reduction.
AWSMD was removed early doors because RAF crews did not like the wings moving automatically.
AWSMD reduces crew workload - fact.
ADV and IDS AWS is different, ADV is more complex.
AWSMD is cleared for use by Panavia, boxes are probably in Stafford somewhere (or maye they were sold to the Sauds?)
AWSMD was fitted to all Tornado aircraft.
So what does AWSMD actually mean? or is there another abbreviation out there?
Come to think of it, when I was in Saudi on secondment I don't recall autowingsweep on their IDS either but all F2/3 were supposed to have it. So I suppose I have to ask DEL mode where his info is from. BTW I'm not having a go I just want to know.
Cheers