NATO vs Russia
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From: Central UK
The concept of accusing NATO units seeking merely to question an almost certainly criminal associate of a regime guilty of mass murder, genocide and endless war-crimes as "pirates" is so laughable as to be almost beyond belief, but I suppose it serves to demonstrate all too clearly the unbridegeable cultural gulch between those indoctrinated by that vile regime and those brought up on honour and decency.
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From: Here and there
Read again, it was in the Gulf of Finland, but the Gulf is around 24nm wide and divided between Finnish and Estonian national waters (12nm limit), it is not neutral waters.
It is recognised as an international strait as it leads to Russian waters and shipping is allowed passage under UNCLOS.
However, it is a right of the National authorities to stop and inspect any ship within their waters to ensure they are properly insured and meet international safety standards for both the vessel and crew - particularly in respect to shadow fleet tankers where several have sunk and caused pollution in the Black Sea etc.
Estonia was therefore entirely within its rights to order the tanker to stop for inspection when within Estonian waters - and it was the Russian Su-27 which illegally entered Estonian airspace.
The tanker is now in breach of both Estonian and international law and, if Estonia issues an international arrest warrant, when it leaves port it can be stopped and seized when within Estonian or Finnish waters - or by Denmark when traversing the Danish Straits to enter the North Sea.
It is recognised as an international strait as it leads to Russian waters and shipping is allowed passage under UNCLOS.
However, it is a right of the National authorities to stop and inspect any ship within their waters to ensure they are properly insured and meet international safety standards for both the vessel and crew - particularly in respect to shadow fleet tankers where several have sunk and caused pollution in the Black Sea etc.
Estonia was therefore entirely within its rights to order the tanker to stop for inspection when within Estonian waters - and it was the Russian Su-27 which illegally entered Estonian airspace.
The tanker is now in breach of both Estonian and international law and, if Estonia issues an international arrest warrant, when it leaves port it can be stopped and seized when within Estonian or Finnish waters - or by Denmark when traversing the Danish Straits to enter the North Sea.
Gulf of Finland is a bit wider than 24 nautical miles, therefore the question "Were they within their waters?" remains valid. You are right, if they were, but your article suggests otherwise.
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From: Here and there
The concept of accusing NATO units seeking merely to question an almost certainly criminal associate of a regime guilty of mass murder, genocide and endless war-crimes as "pirates" is so laughable as to be almost beyond belief, but I suppose it serves to demonstrate all too clearly the unbridegeable cultural gulch between those indoctrinated by that vile regime and those brought up on honour and decency.
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From: UK
There is no higher horse.
Last edited by beardy; 15th May 2025 at 20:52.
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From: Glorious Devon
It was not NATO, it was Estonia, which has a right to inspect vessels in its territorial waters. At its narrowest point, the passage is less than 20 miles wide.
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From: Here and there
That's not true. The Royal Navy had a significant role on the high seas in stopping the trade in human bodies for slavery despite the waters they plied and more recently the vile trade in drug running. Any vessel running the gauntlet of the law of the sea, human decency and morals deserves to be stopped and inspected, only those who carry guilt should be ashamed of their conduct.
There is no higher horse.
There is no higher horse.
Quite idiotic move on behalf of NATO and Estonia. Could've been done absolutely legally when the vessel was crossing Denish Straits or La Manche.
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From: AK
The Royal Navy had a significant role on the high seas in stopping the trade in human bodies for slavery despite the waters they plied and more recently the vile trade in drug running. Any vessel running the gauntlet of the law of the sea, human decency and morals deserves to be stopped and inspected, only those who carry guilt should be ashamed of their conduct.
There is no higher horse.
There is no higher horse.
-The role of genocide in the origins of the British state
-The problem of genocide in the Empire and British settler colonialism
-Britain's relationship to twentieth-century European genocide
-Britain's role the genocidal violence of decolonization
-Britain's role in the genocidal crises of the post-Cold War world
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been repeatedly, by Cold War political leaders, et al, been attributed to NATO's encroachment into Ukraine. And so to listen to NATO military officers talk about "honour" and "morals" is a bit much. Terms that come to mind include 'echo chamber' and 'paur auternus.' The old observation that "those who scream loudest are most guilty" remains true today.
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From: Glorious Devon
When and how did NATO encroach into Ukraine? Even if Ukraine did join NATO, it would be their decision, as a sovereign nation, to apply. How would that differ from the NATO membership of the Baltic States and now Finland?
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From: Berkshire
13 others (another new arrival on the scene) posted
True. And the vast majority of the bot disinformation comes from the Russian fascist propoganda machine. (apologies to mod.s if this belongs in JB).
The old observation that "those who scream loudest are most guilty" remains true today.
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Consider reading the works of British sociologist Martin Shaw
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From: Outer ring of HEL
German chancellor vows to build Europe’s strongest army
“Our friends and partners also expect this from us, and what’s more, they are actually demanding it,” said the new chancellor.
No mention of the time frame, though.
“Our friends and partners also expect this from us, and what’s more, they are actually demanding it,” said the new chancellor.
Politico
May 14, 2025 3:13 pm CET
By Nette Nöstlinger
BERLIN —Germany will take more responsibility for Europe's defense by building the strongest army in the EU, conservative Chancellor Friedrich Merz said in a wide-ranging speech in the Bundestag on Wednesday.
"The federal government will provide all the financial resources that the Bundeswehr needs to become the strongest conventional army in Europe,” Merz said. “This is more than appropriate for the most populous and economically strongest country in Europe. Our friends and partners also expect this from us, and what's more, they are actually demanding it."
https://www.politico.eu/article/frie...entional-army/
May 14, 2025 3:13 pm CET
By Nette Nöstlinger
BERLIN —Germany will take more responsibility for Europe's defense by building the strongest army in the EU, conservative Chancellor Friedrich Merz said in a wide-ranging speech in the Bundestag on Wednesday.
"The federal government will provide all the financial resources that the Bundeswehr needs to become the strongest conventional army in Europe,” Merz said. “This is more than appropriate for the most populous and economically strongest country in Europe. Our friends and partners also expect this from us, and what's more, they are actually demanding it."
https://www.politico.eu/article/frie...entional-army/
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Looks like Trump is still in Putin's corner.....
VideoQ: Is Putin now the obstacle to peace?
Trump: “Umm, look. I had a real rough session with Zelensky because I didn't like what he said and he was not making it easy. And I always said he doesn't have the cards, and he doesn't have the cards”........
VideoQ: Is Putin now the obstacle to peace?
Trump: “Umm, look. I had a real rough session with Zelensky because I didn't like what he said and he was not making it easy. And I always said he doesn't have the cards, and he doesn't have the cards”........
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
And what else did the expect? I could have told them exactly what they would hear, they need to project a sense of strength to the Russians.
The on going peace negotiations or as Russia appears to call it, piece negotiations.
The on going peace negotiations or as Russia appears to call it, piece negotiations.
PM of Poland Donald Tusk:
"The information was clear: the Russian side did not show goodwill, the Russian side was not willing to negotiate. The Russian side set absolutely unacceptable conditions again, not only for Ukraine, but also for all of us."
"The information was clear: the Russian side did not show goodwill, the Russian side was not willing to negotiate. The Russian side set absolutely unacceptable conditions again, not only for Ukraine, but also for all of us."
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From: Scotland
This leaves Trump with no option, but to meet with Putin if he want's the 'war' to stop
Putin has to meet if he does want Trump to end the militarily - and probably push Russia out of Crimea, as punishment
Putin has to meet if he does want Trump to end the militarily - and probably push Russia out of Crimea, as punishment
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
Putin will run rings around trump, the man’s a self centred idiot.
All Putin needs to do is suggest a few trump towers or golf courses scattered across Russia, or even an Oligarchs yacht, and he will have him eating out of his hand.
All Putin needs to do is suggest a few trump towers or golf courses scattered across Russia, or even an Oligarchs yacht, and he will have him eating out of his hand.
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From: Scotland
But when he gets home and that is pointed out to him, he will be very pissed off. Trump has a very slow filter, but at the end of the day he is not completely stupid