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Employment tribunal finds military lawyer's dismissal from RAF amounted to unlawful

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Employment tribunal finds military lawyer's dismissal from RAF amounted to unlawful

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Old 20th Oct 2023, 12:47
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Originally Posted by charliegolf
Only until he arrived at his next desk!
CG
Judging by the testimonials, maybe not. The judge rejected unsubstantiated claims of senior officers, citing clear evidence that they lied. They committed far greater offences than what the Wg Cdr was dismissed for.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 13:49
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great
On the basis the ET remarks several RAF Officers lied under oath, I do hope they are going to be suitably admonished….
I wonder where the Air Force Board can turn to for legal advice on admonishing the head of the branch that is suppose to give them legal advice!?

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Old 20th Oct 2023, 15:11
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AM Mayhew was criticised in an employment tribunal case in October 2023 in which he was found to have offered "hollow and unconvincing evidence" in a claim by a serving military officer.[12]

Last edited by NutLoose; 20th Oct 2023 at 15:42.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 15:54
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Originally Posted by m0nkfish
I wonder where the Air Force Board can turn to for legal advice on admonishing the head of the branch that is suppose to give them legal advice!?
Surely lying under oath is conduct prejudicial.
Or is it one law for airships and another for the rest?
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 16:05
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Of course it's one law for airships and another for the rest .... and has been for some time!!!
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 16:56
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Still waiting for Wiggy to be recalled to Parliament for not being correct at HCDC. Incidentally, it looks like his last day of service was last week. Thank goodness.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 16:59
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These trumpets that have been found guilty of lying under oath have effectively killed their own careers. They will no longer be able to give evidence as any barrister worth their salt will rip 'em up for ass paper.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 18:52
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However, it does seem that the complainant is a bit of a PITA.
"Oh, I wasn't promoted, he was".
"Oh, I didn't get to Staff college" [I moaned to my Desk Officer on the same topic, but got there a year or so later].

"Who will rid me of this turbulent priest" springs to mind.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 19:30
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meanwhile, the legal stuff

"Under section 98 Employment Rights Act 1998 (“ERA”) a potentially fair reason for dismissal is “some other substantial reason of a kind such as to justify the dismissal of an employee holding the position which the employee held”. This is a catch-all category to deal with reasons which are not identified elsewhere in the ERA. One example of a potentially fair reason for dismissal under this category is a breakdown of trust and confidence."
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 20:05
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Originally Posted by MPN11
However, it does seem that the complainant is a bit of a PITA.
"Oh, I wasn't promoted, he was".
"Oh, I didn't get to Staff college" [I moaned to my Desk Officer on the same topic, but got there a year or so later].

"Who will rid me of this turbulent priest" springs to mind.
fastidious and naive was how the ET described him.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 20:57
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So it might turn out that they may end up joining the person they conspired through lying to get shot off.

Trust in your colleagues is everything, but to have colleagues that are now known to have lied under oath, they surely must now be seen as a liability for the airforce.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 21:30
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
So it might turn out that they may end up joining the person they conspired through lying to get shot off.

Trust in your colleagues is everything, but to have colleagues that are now known to have lied under oath, they surely must now be seen as a liability for the airforce.
you would expect some sort of investigation into the ET’s findings…
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 21:31
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Where`s `Legal-beagle` `pr00ne` when needed...?
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 21:42
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Originally Posted by MPN11
However, it does seem that the complainant is a bit of a PITA.
"Oh, I wasn't promoted, he was".
"Oh, I didn't get to Staff college" [I moaned to my Desk Officer on the same topic, but got there a year or so later].

"Who will rid me of this turbulent priest" springs to mind.
I think his issue was that they had promoted someone who scored lower than he did on the PB, which meant he missed out. He’s not the first this has happened to. Similarly, he was told he was off to AST, then suddenly he wasn’t.

The turbulent priest analogy sits well with the subsequent response from ‘the system’, which is exactly what the ET judge called out.
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Old 21st Oct 2023, 06:10
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Originally Posted by Akrotiri bad boy
These trumpets that have been found guilty of lying under oath have effectively killed their own careers. They will no longer be able to give evidence as any barrister worth their salt will rip 'em up for ass paper.
The trouble is, it doesn't seem to kill their careers. The officer who 'misled' the Coroner in the Jon Bayliss case in November 2021, and the subject of ongoing police inquiries, was promoted to Air Rank. That is not to say he lied. He may not have known his briefing was a pack of lies. But it was related to THE crucial question, and the Coroner's finding was tainted by being misled. A simple Google search for the relevant MoD report revealed the truth. And a retired Air Marshal came forward to confirm it.
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Old 21st Oct 2023, 08:36
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
Surely lying under oath is conduct prejudicial.
Or is it one law for airships and another for the rest?
I think we all know the answer to that one, LB.
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Old 21st Oct 2023, 13:53
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There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip....

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Old 21st Oct 2023, 21:06
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Can anyone say whether there is a particular legal meaning of "untruth" that distinguishes it from "lie"? Is it that a "lie" is provably intentional and therefore evidence of perjury, while an "untruth" is not?
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Old 22nd Oct 2023, 13:09
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My guess would be if I tell you something is true while knowing it isn't. that would be a lie.
If I tell you something is true, and believe it to be true, but it proves to be false, that might be an untruth.
Borderline - if I tell you something is true, while not knowing if it is or isn't.
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Old 22nd Oct 2023, 13:31
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The ET papers are an interesting read to say the least.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribun...130-slash-2020

The amount of damages will be interesting just like this other case.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...iams-v-mod.pdf
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