USMC F-35B Crash - 17 Sep 23
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https://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=36625
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Sep 2023 at 01:47.
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That looks like an electronic display to me. While I dont quiet believe the story myself, if something failed hard enough to knock out all displays on the fighter I would expect a massive worldwide grounding. But I am only repeating the rumors being said by actual current/former fighter pilots
"Standby Flight Display System: The standby display system independently displays attitude, altitude, airspeed, vertical velocity and angle of attack. The display system is centrally located in the cockpit front panel and incorporates fully agile performance." https://www.smiths.com/news-and-medi...r-first-flight
&
Li-ion Batteries: https://www.saft.com/media-resources...-ion-batteries
Pentagon stands by use of lithium-ion batteries on F-35 fighters | Reuters
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Sep 2023 at 04:47. Reason: +txt
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Rhubarb Rhubarb Rhubard. Perhaps this is why there is/was a suggestion the crashed F-35 was on AUTO-pilot. Bear in mind this quote below is from an USAF F-35 publication but likely the B people use a similar procedure. ONLY TIME WILL TELL. 
Dare I say SD was part of the MIShapMIX?
7.7. Spatial Disorientation. Reference AFMAN 11-202V3 and Air Force Pamphlet (AFPAM) 11-417, Orientation in Aviation. Specific actions available in the F-35A to counter spatial disorientation (SD):
7.7.1. Enabling a pilot initiated fly up is an acceptable recovery method from SD induced unusual attitudes. Pilots should ensure deconfliction from other aircraft (primarily above or below their position) prior to pilot initiated fly up activation.
7.7.2. Select the full color electronic flight instrumentation via a “Z-Axis plunge of Comm Switch,” even if an alternate PFR is currently displayed.
7.7.3. Use autopilot.
Flying Operations F-35A—OPERATIONS PROCEDURES AFMAN11-2F-35AV3 16 MAY 2022
Chapter 4 INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES [page 22]
4.1. Primary Flight Reference.
4.1.1. When flight conditions require sole reliance on instruments for aircraft control, the pilot shall select and continuously display an approved primary flight reference (PFR). (T-1) The primary unusual attitude reference is the electronic flight instrument, panoramic cockpit display heads-up display, or standby flight display. Do not use the helmet mounted display alone to recover from an unusual attitude.
4.1.2. When using a single panoramic cockpit display PFR during flight conditions requiring continuous PFR display, pilots are prohibited from covering that PFR with a Function Access Button popup display.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/p...1-2f-35av3.pdf (0.75Mb)
Dare I say SD was part of the MIShapMIX?7.7. Spatial Disorientation. Reference AFMAN 11-202V3 and Air Force Pamphlet (AFPAM) 11-417, Orientation in Aviation. Specific actions available in the F-35A to counter spatial disorientation (SD):
7.7.1. Enabling a pilot initiated fly up is an acceptable recovery method from SD induced unusual attitudes. Pilots should ensure deconfliction from other aircraft (primarily above or below their position) prior to pilot initiated fly up activation.
7.7.2. Select the full color electronic flight instrumentation via a “Z-Axis plunge of Comm Switch,” even if an alternate PFR is currently displayed.
7.7.3. Use autopilot.
Flying Operations F-35A—OPERATIONS PROCEDURES AFMAN11-2F-35AV3 16 MAY 2022
Chapter 4 INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES [page 22]
4.1. Primary Flight Reference.
4.1.1. When flight conditions require sole reliance on instruments for aircraft control, the pilot shall select and continuously display an approved primary flight reference (PFR). (T-1) The primary unusual attitude reference is the electronic flight instrument, panoramic cockpit display heads-up display, or standby flight display. Do not use the helmet mounted display alone to recover from an unusual attitude.
4.1.2. When using a single panoramic cockpit display PFR during flight conditions requiring continuous PFR display, pilots are prohibited from covering that PFR with a Function Access Button popup display.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/p...1-2f-35av3.pdf (0.75Mb)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Sep 2023 at 04:49. Reason: +txt format
Have these "actual current/former fighter pilots" flown the F-35? SFD is powered by a battery. Did that Li-on battery fail as well?
"Standby Flight Display System: The standby display system independently displays attitude, altitude, airspeed, vertical velocity and angle of attack. The display system is centrally located in the cockpit front panel and incorporates fully agile performance." https://www.smiths.com/news-and-medi...r-first-flight
"Standby Flight Display System: The standby display system independently displays attitude, altitude, airspeed, vertical velocity and angle of attack. The display system is centrally located in the cockpit front panel and incorporates fully agile performance." https://www.smiths.com/news-and-medi...r-first-flight
Not saying it couldn't happen, but if it did that's a very serious design 'miss' and should result in an immediate grounding.
Going down the rabbit hole a bit but there has to be some connection to the battery powered backup if it runs on power with normal operation or if it runs on battery only with battery charge. It is unlikely to be a fully self contained system for that reason. A lot of this stuff relies on liklihood of event to get by.
Rumour I read was a massive electrical failure in stormy weather - pilot has zero screens or info, loses wingman and decides its time to jump out before he flies in to something immovable he can't see or sense.
Rumour I read was a massive electrical failure in stormy weather - pilot has zero screens or info, loses wingman and decides its time to jump out before he flies in to something immovable he can't see or sense.
Going down the rabbit hole a bit but there has to be some connection to the battery powered backup if it runs on power with normal operation or if it runs on battery only with battery charge. It is unlikely to be a fully self contained system for that reason. A lot of this stuff relies on liklihood of event to get by.
Repeating myself, but if any electrical system failure can take out the Standby system, that is a very serious design miss and should result in a fleetwide grounding.
Yes, the battery charger for the Standby system needs to be connected to the electrical system, but a design requirement is that when the electrical system goes down, it won't affect the battery and the battery will keep the Standby system working. Commerical aircraft have been designed this way for decades - it's not exactly rocket science to implement.
Repeating myself, but if any electrical system failure can take out the Standby system, that is a very serious design miss and should result in a fleetwide grounding.
Repeating myself, but if any electrical system failure can take out the Standby system, that is a very serious design miss and should result in a fleetwide grounding.
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Yes, the battery charger for the Standby system needs to be connected to the electrical system, but a design requirement is that when the electrical system goes down, it won't affect the battery and the battery will keep the Standby system working. Commerical aircraft have been designed this way for decades - it's not exactly rocket science to implement.
Repeating myself, but if any electrical system failure can take out the Standby system, that is a very serious design miss and should result in a fleetwide grounding.
Repeating myself, but if any electrical system failure can take out the Standby system, that is a very serious design miss and should result in a fleetwide grounding.
Perhaps the standby system suffered the equivalent of a NRV failure and all the electrons in the standby battery whistled down the wire in a vain attempt to power the main system.
I'll get my coat...
I'll get my coat...
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Sadly the NAN PDF is no longer at this URL while a quick search could not find it again. Nevertheless if one has a HANKering for CARUSO then this SD primer is fun. Lies My Cilia Told Me: A Spatial Disorientation Primer Art and text© by Hank Caruso Naval Aviation News 30 Oct 2012 http://navalaviationnews.navylive.do...isorientation/ Nevertheless if there was some kind of electrical failure then the odds of the pilot experiencing some form of SD - especially just after take off - (precessing like the old Vampire AH). Just a WILD GUESS!
Somatogravic Illusion: "In this SD illusion, obscured vision, acceleration, and the orientation of the pilot’s head (looking upward) conspire to tell the pilot’s inner ear the airplane is climbing when it is actually flying level. To correct the situation, the pilot pushes the stick forward and begins to dive into the ground (as shown by the glimpse of horizon through the clouds). Again, an SD gremlin confounds the pilot’s sensory system, in spite of the pilot’s small inner voice of reason." CARUSO
Somatogravic Illusion: "In this SD illusion, obscured vision, acceleration, and the orientation of the pilot’s head (looking upward) conspire to tell the pilot’s inner ear the airplane is climbing when it is actually flying level. To correct the situation, the pilot pushes the stick forward and begins to dive into the ground (as shown by the glimpse of horizon through the clouds). Again, an SD gremlin confounds the pilot’s sensory system, in spite of the pilot’s small inner voice of reason." CARUSO
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[Download 10 page CARUSO SD PDF (0.9Mb) from: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAE ]
Another classic CARUSO from same source as above. Hard Wired for Deception
“The human body is hard-wired with sophisticated biological sensors to provide a constant stream of information about its position and orientation in space. These sensors provide visual, attitude, gravitational, wind, and proprioreceptor (relative positions of body parts) cues. Because this integrated sensor system is so carefully balanced, however, it can be deceived by conflicting combinations of inputs or depriving it of critical bits of information.” CARUSO
Another classic CARUSO from same source as above. Hard Wired for Deception
“The human body is hard-wired with sophisticated biological sensors to provide a constant stream of information about its position and orientation in space. These sensors provide visual, attitude, gravitational, wind, and proprioreceptor (relative positions of body parts) cues. Because this integrated sensor system is so carefully balanced, however, it can be deceived by conflicting combinations of inputs or depriving it of critical bits of information.” CARUSO
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 27th Sep 2023 at 02:32.
Pilot can say what he saw and experienced, not what happened.
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The F-35 does have an FDR Flight Data Recorder, parts of it were recovered from the under sea wreckage of the Japanese F-35A crash (due to SD) for example. Other crash reports usually mention the FDR. Meanwhile an interesting if again vague article on this F-35B crash/mishap.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...arolina-update
...The pilot, who said he was 47, reported feeling “OK” after falling what he estimated was 2,000ft. Only his back hurt, he said....
...The Marines have described the pilot as an experienced aviator with decades of experience in the cockpit. The F-35 crashed Sunday after a malfunction prompted the pilot to eject...
...The Marine Corps said Thursday that a feature on fighter jets intended to protect pilots in emergencies could explain how the F-35 managed to continue its travels. They said that while it was unclear why the jet kept flying, flight control software would have worked to keep it steady if there were no longer a pilot’s hands on the controls. “If the jet is stable in level flight, the jet will attempt to stay there. If it was in an established climb or descent, the jet will maintain a 1G state in that climb or descent until commanded to do something else,” the Marine Corps said in a statement. “This is designed to save our pilots if they are incapacitated or lose situational awareness.” [SD]...
...However, the Marines said the feature that kept the plane flying may not only have saved the life of the pilot but of others on the ground. “The good news is it appeared to work as advertised. The other bit of silver lining in this case is that through the F-35 flying away it avoided crashing into a densely populated area surrounding the airport, and fortunately crashed into an empty field and forested area,” the statement said."
Last para above may refer to: "Saving the Good Guys with Auto GCAS Technology The cockpit of a fighter jet is a busy and dangerous place to work. High-speed fighter aircraft maneuvers can produce g-forces strong enough to render a pilot unconscious or cause spatial disorientation. The pace and complexity of modern aerial combat can also mentally “overload” a pilot and lead to task saturation or target fixation. All can prove deadly...." Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS) | Lockheed Martin
F-35WhatisAutoGCASNoTITLE.jpg (2400×1148) (lockheedmartin.com)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...arolina-update
...The pilot, who said he was 47, reported feeling “OK” after falling what he estimated was 2,000ft. Only his back hurt, he said....
...The Marines have described the pilot as an experienced aviator with decades of experience in the cockpit. The F-35 crashed Sunday after a malfunction prompted the pilot to eject...
...The Marine Corps said Thursday that a feature on fighter jets intended to protect pilots in emergencies could explain how the F-35 managed to continue its travels. They said that while it was unclear why the jet kept flying, flight control software would have worked to keep it steady if there were no longer a pilot’s hands on the controls. “If the jet is stable in level flight, the jet will attempt to stay there. If it was in an established climb or descent, the jet will maintain a 1G state in that climb or descent until commanded to do something else,” the Marine Corps said in a statement. “This is designed to save our pilots if they are incapacitated or lose situational awareness.” [SD]...
...However, the Marines said the feature that kept the plane flying may not only have saved the life of the pilot but of others on the ground. “The good news is it appeared to work as advertised. The other bit of silver lining in this case is that through the F-35 flying away it avoided crashing into a densely populated area surrounding the airport, and fortunately crashed into an empty field and forested area,” the statement said."
Last para above may refer to: "Saving the Good Guys with Auto GCAS Technology The cockpit of a fighter jet is a busy and dangerous place to work. High-speed fighter aircraft maneuvers can produce g-forces strong enough to render a pilot unconscious or cause spatial disorientation. The pace and complexity of modern aerial combat can also mentally “overload” a pilot and lead to task saturation or target fixation. All can prove deadly...." Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS) | Lockheed Martin
F-35WhatisAutoGCASNoTITLE.jpg (2400×1148) (lockheedmartin.com)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 27th Sep 2023 at 20:31. Reason: A-GCAS
The Pilot did not fall 2,000’, he parachuted after the ejection sequence. I recently was asked how I survived the fall after my ejection. Incredulously, I said, “I had a parachute, you twit”. “Where did that come from?”. “The seat, stop this very moment”.
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F35
A new theory from Duffel Blog about what happened to the F35 that was lost
https://www.duffelblog.com/p/missing...kup-with-pilot
https://www.duffelblog.com/p/missing...kup-with-pilot