Tanker Towing
Thread Starter
KC135 tug?
I have recently seen a programme on television on the KC135 during which an account was made of a KC!35 towing an F4 that had had an engine failure during an Atlantic crossing and was unable to maintain height. According to the programme the F4 was plugged into the boom and then towed to landfall and a suitable airfield.
Does the KC135 boom have the facility to lock into the receiver's refuelling receptacle with such strength that it can tow an F4? If so how does a receiver normally break contact? I assume too that there is some form of weak link in the boom assembly to protect the tanker whichmust make towing a delicate manoeuvre. The other somewhat surprising mention in this account was that this F4 (J79 powered) could not maintain height even at 3000' on a single engine and had to be eased back up to 6000' as part of the tow. Most of my F4 time was on the Spey-engined variants where this definitely was not an issue and I don't recall it being an issue from my time on a J79 variant. In fairness this account did not elaborate on the nature of the emergency other than the single engine failure. I am not challenging the veracity of this story but I am very curious as to how it waa achieved mechanically.
Does the KC135 boom have the facility to lock into the receiver's refuelling receptacle with such strength that it can tow an F4? If so how does a receiver normally break contact? I assume too that there is some form of weak link in the boom assembly to protect the tanker whichmust make towing a delicate manoeuvre. The other somewhat surprising mention in this account was that this F4 (J79 powered) could not maintain height even at 3000' on a single engine and had to be eased back up to 6000' as part of the tow. Most of my F4 time was on the Spey-engined variants where this definitely was not an issue and I don't recall it being an issue from my time on a J79 variant. In fairness this account did not elaborate on the nature of the emergency other than the single engine failure. I am not challenging the veracity of this story but I am very curious as to how it waa achieved mechanically.
Not an F4 but the mechanics must be the same:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/time-kc-135-tanker-towed-badly-damaged-f-111-fighter-bomber-skies-vietnam/ ]Tanker Tow
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/time-kc-135-tanker-towed-badly-damaged-f-111-fighter-bomber-skies-vietnam/ ]Tanker Tow
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I have recently seen a programme on television on the KC135 during which an account was made of a KC!35 towing an F4 that had had an engine failure during an Atlantic crossing and was unable to maintain height. According to the programme the F4 was plugged into the boom and then towed to landfall and a suitable airfield.
https://www.amc.af.mil/News/Features...e-vietnam-war/
Then, of course, there was Pardo's Push.....
https://www.historynet.com/pardos-pu...airmanship.htm
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I recall reading that if one engine was at least turning then a KC-135 could pull it for a while.
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
The tug story was just on Smithsonian's, Air Warriors prog about the 135. They tugged for 3 hours. The boomer got an award for the skill he showed, given the F4's attitude and handling issues.
CG
CG
I recall reading that if one engine was at least turning then a KC-135 could pull it for a while.
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
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Thread Starter
Thank you all for your replies but my main question 'Does the KC135 boom have the facility to lock into the receiver's refuelling receptacle?' remains unanswered. I assume that this facility must exist in some form in order to be able to tow but surely there must be some form of weak link in the boom assembly to protect the boom assembly (and the tanker) if the load becomes excessive. Clearly this facility is one advantage over the probe/drogue system. .
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Thank you all for your replies but my main question 'Does the KC135 boom have the facility to lock into the receiver's refuelling receptacle?' remains unanswered. I assume that this facility must exist in some form in order to be able to tow but surely there must be some form of weak link in the boom assembly to protect the boom assembly (and the tanker) if the load becomes excessive. Clearly this facility is one advantage over the probe/drogue system. .
I don’t think the locking mechanism was ever intended to support towing an aircraft though.
The link to the 135 operating in Vietnam has this quote.
"We have a thing that we do called locking the toggles," said Hickman. "When you lock the toggles on a receiver you can actually tow him. So we did that, and kept giving him fuel."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Section 8.2.6 and section 8.4 in toto.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1048313.pdf
AERIAL REFUELING SYSTEMS ADVISORY GROUP
Guidance document
Aerial Refueling Boom/Receptacle
8.2.6 Toggle Latches.
The receptacle cavity should be equipped with actuated toggle latches are specified in ATP- 3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19 and ATP-3.3.4.5 D (D-3) to hold the boom in the locked position during aerial refueling. The toggle latches should function as required in paragraph 8.4 below.
8.4 Receptacle/UARRSI Toggle Latches
8.4.1 Toggle Latch Response Time. The toggle latches should latch or unlatch as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.d.
8.4.2 Tension Disconnect. The latch actuator should contain an integral relief mechanism to permit disconnects by forcing the latches open. The latch mechanism should hold the boom nozzle in the locked-in position as specified in ATP- 3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.
8.4.3 Toggles Spring Loaded Open. The receptacle toggle latches should be spring loaded to the open position in the event of toggle shaft breakage or loss of actuation power as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.c(1).
8.4.4 Toggle Shaft Structural Fuse. The toggle shafts should break under a tension force, produced by the tanker boom on disconnect as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.c.(2).
8.4.5 Operator Initiated Normal/Override. The tanker/receiver aircraft should be provided normal and override modes for latched and disconnect modes of the system.
You can buy a copy of ATP-3.3.4.5 (Stanag 7191) from the link below for $10
https://www.techstreet.com/standards...uct_id=1983202
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1048313.pdf
AERIAL REFUELING SYSTEMS ADVISORY GROUP
Guidance document
Aerial Refueling Boom/Receptacle
8.2.6 Toggle Latches.
The receptacle cavity should be equipped with actuated toggle latches are specified in ATP- 3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19 and ATP-3.3.4.5 D (D-3) to hold the boom in the locked position during aerial refueling. The toggle latches should function as required in paragraph 8.4 below.
8.4 Receptacle/UARRSI Toggle Latches
8.4.1 Toggle Latch Response Time. The toggle latches should latch or unlatch as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.d.
8.4.2 Tension Disconnect. The latch actuator should contain an integral relief mechanism to permit disconnects by forcing the latches open. The latch mechanism should hold the boom nozzle in the locked-in position as specified in ATP- 3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.
8.4.3 Toggles Spring Loaded Open. The receptacle toggle latches should be spring loaded to the open position in the event of toggle shaft breakage or loss of actuation power as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.c(1).
8.4.4 Toggle Shaft Structural Fuse. The toggle shafts should break under a tension force, produced by the tanker boom on disconnect as specified in ATP-3.3.4.5 paragraph 1.19, item 5.c.(2).
8.4.5 Operator Initiated Normal/Override. The tanker/receiver aircraft should be provided normal and override modes for latched and disconnect modes of the system.
You can buy a copy of ATP-3.3.4.5 (Stanag 7191) from the link below for $10
https://www.techstreet.com/standards...uct_id=1983202
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I recall reading that if one engine was at least turning then a KC-135 could pull it for a while.
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
Canopy to tailhook has working. Nose in the tail pipe has worked. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Not quite the same, but I recall reading about a Mustang landing in a German field to pick up his partner who had parachuted safely. Not sure if that gets you a medal or a court martial...
In March 1966, more than 2,000 troops of the NVA 95th Regiment, 325th Division, came down the trail to besiege a platoon of Green Berets and several hundred South Vietnamese in the A Shau Valley, near the Laotian border. Diving into the mountains surrounding the base, one pilot said, “was like flying inside Yankee Stadium with the people in the bleachers firing at you with machine guns.” During a March 10 attack on the NVA, Skyraider pilot Maj. Dafford W. “Jump” Myers of the 602nd Fighter Squadron (Commando) radioed, “I’ve been hit and hit hard.” He crash-landed his blazing Spad on the base airstrip. With enemy troops within 20 yards of Myers’ position and the nearest rescue chopper 30 minutes out, Maj. Bernard F. “Bernie” Fisher, an A-1E pilot of the 1st Air Commando Squadron out of Pleiku, told everyone, “I’m going in.”
The runway was so littered with battle trash that Fisher had to abort his first approach. On his second try he stopped at the end of the strip and rolled back to Myers, peppered with small-arms fire all the way. “The enemy was so close,” Fisher noted, “I was afraid a couple of them might jump aboard my Skyraider before Myers could make it.” The prop wash from Fisher’s Spad blew Myers off the plane’s wing. Fisher throttled back to idle, dragged Myers headfirst into the side seat, then revved up and rolled, dodging debris to get airborne. They landed at Pleiku with 19 holes in the Skyraider. Fisher received the Medal of Honor for his heroics. His Skyraider is at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Dayton, Ohio.
The runway was so littered with battle trash that Fisher had to abort his first approach. On his second try he stopped at the end of the strip and rolled back to Myers, peppered with small-arms fire all the way. “The enemy was so close,” Fisher noted, “I was afraid a couple of them might jump aboard my Skyraider before Myers could make it.” The prop wash from Fisher’s Spad blew Myers off the plane’s wing. Fisher throttled back to idle, dragged Myers headfirst into the side seat, then revved up and rolled, dodging debris to get airborne. They landed at Pleiku with 19 holes in the Skyraider. Fisher received the Medal of Honor for his heroics. His Skyraider is at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Dayton, Ohio.
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Tanker Towing
Having finally ditched Sky my viewing has become much more diverse. As a consequence I stumble upon many long lost programmes one of which is Steve Canyon on Plex.
The mission in Ser 1 Ep1 is described as 'an actual mission flown by the US Air Force, all information, material and incidents contained herein are now declassified' and shows three Convair 102 Delta Dagger being trialled to be towed by a B-29 Superfortress in order to increase the state of intercept readiness by hooking up, fuelling up and closing down their engines.
All well and good, it's TV, but then as if by magic, I see (get fed) an Instagram post about six KC-135s escorting 24 F-4s across the Atlantic to Germany in 1983, when one of the F-4s developed problems including losing one engine, with it ending up being ' towed 'to shore' thereby saving the aircraft and two crew.
Knowing what little I know about air to air refuelling, this surely isn't really possible due to the breakaway systems in place.....or is it! Could there actually be an override and strong enough latch on & hose system for these very circumstances? Is the central station stronger that the outboards for example?
Rather than delve into interwebery rabbit holes, I thought putting it out here for those that know to pass on their experience and knowledge to be the best way to get the gen on this.
Expecting a very short two lettered thread... Thanks all.
The mission in Ser 1 Ep1 is described as 'an actual mission flown by the US Air Force, all information, material and incidents contained herein are now declassified' and shows three Convair 102 Delta Dagger being trialled to be towed by a B-29 Superfortress in order to increase the state of intercept readiness by hooking up, fuelling up and closing down their engines.
All well and good, it's TV, but then as if by magic, I see (get fed) an Instagram post about six KC-135s escorting 24 F-4s across the Atlantic to Germany in 1983, when one of the F-4s developed problems including losing one engine, with it ending up being ' towed 'to shore' thereby saving the aircraft and two crew.
Knowing what little I know about air to air refuelling, this surely isn't really possible due to the breakaway systems in place.....or is it! Could there actually be an override and strong enough latch on & hose system for these very circumstances? Is the central station stronger that the outboards for example?
Rather than delve into interwebery rabbit holes, I thought putting it out here for those that know to pass on their experience and knowledge to be the best way to get the gen on this.
Expecting a very short two lettered thread... Thanks all.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Wow! Thanks ORAC.
Locking toggles... prob what we see, one of which gets stuck, in the Steve Canyon episode.
Locking toggles... prob what we see, one of which gets stuck, in the Steve Canyon episode.
I recall reading a magazine/comic,possibly `The Eagle` that had a story about the Korean War,where an F-86 got damaged over N Korea,eventually flamed out,then the wingman pushed the nose of his F-86 into the gliding jet,and pushed them both back over friendly lines......
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I recall reading a magazine/comic,possibly `The Eagle` that had a story about the Korean War,where an F-86 got damaged over N Korea,eventually flamed out,then the wingman pushed the nose of his F-86 into the gliding jet,and pushed them both back over friendly lines......