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RAF to increase pilot training by up to 50% at Valley.

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RAF to increase pilot training by up to 50% at Valley.

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Old 13th Jun 2023, 15:16
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RAF to increase pilot training by up to 50% at Valley.

Is that enough, or is that simply increasing a derisory number?

RAF Valley has opened a new building extension to allow for additional simulators to increase the basic flight training of trainee pilots by almost 50%, which it is hoped will help ease the current pilot training pipeline issues.

The new Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) building is part of a £175m investment by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) into Ascent's delivery of basic flight training within UKMFTS, the UK's military flying training system.

Ascent's industry partners from Babcock International and Kier have extended existing infrastructure to house the new simulators, adding additional instructors and other facilities to increase capacity for basic flying training.
https://www.forces.net/services/raf/...ties-nearly-50
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13th Jun 2023, 18:45
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As readers will have gathered, I know bugger all about flying.

However, anything near 100% Sim is surely lunacy for at least two reasons:

Many years ago I became [don't larf] an expert in Harrier deck landings c. 1984 ....... on an in-house computer at my Weather Centre we had unofficially installed a state of the art commercial Flight Sim. After 100 crashes on deck or in the sea, I mastered the job. I was, in the context of the game, immortal I never experienced adrenalin rushes, squeaky bum or sheer terror as things happened quicker than I could react. Similarly, I deduce that the worst that can happen in a proper Sim is failure and bollocking.

The other reason is that the pilot is the tip of a very complicated weapon. The people that plan flying, that authorise it, that brief it, that supervise it, the armourers and the sooties and the lineys and ATC and a host of other trades need the day to day exercise of getting a military aircraft safely airborne and fit for mission. The Sim exercises nothing of this.

The 100%, or anywhere near it, has to be bolleaux, surely.
Old 13th Jun 2023, 15:33
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Is lack of simulator capacity really the problem?
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 15:36
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Flying sims is no substitute for the real thing; I don't care what the experts tell you, getting more pilots flying is the only way you can do that.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 15:44
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Have they really named the building Strategic Defence and Security Review?
Or have Forces News misunderstood?
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 16:25
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Flying sims is no substitute for the real thing; I don't care what the experts tell you, getting more pilots flying is the only way you can do that.
I partly agree but the recently retired CAS was on record as aspiring to a 100/0 sim/ flying balance. Live flying would only take place on Ops. Perhaps that is the origin of this story.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 16:47
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Originally Posted by Timelord
I partly agree but the recently retired CAS was on record as aspiring to a 100/0 sim/ flying balance. Live flying would only take place on Ops. Perhaps that is the origin of this story.
can a Sim manage g forces or expose fear of flying?
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 17:16
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
can a Sim manage g forces or expose fear of flying?
Actually there is a sim in a centrifuge at Cranwell but I don’t know how frightening it is!
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 17:23
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Timelord

Originally Posted by Timelord
Actually there is a sim in a centrifuge at Cranwell but I don’t know how frightening it is!
It sounds great in theory but it’s really just a good centrifuge. It’s not a simulator as you would know it. It just means you can pull the control column and the G increases as you fly the video game.

BV
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 17:26
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Consequence of error is an integral thing to learn. You can only learn doing the real thing.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 17:35
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Flying sims is no substitute for the real thing; I don't care what the experts tell you, getting more pilots flying is the only way you can do that.
Surely it isn't meant to be a subsitute? Isn't it not part of the training syllabus? Most of a TR is in a sim. Clearly you need flying hours as well but its a start.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 17:51
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Originally Posted by Timelord
I partly agree but the recently retired CAS was on record as aspiring to a 100/0 sim/ flying balance. Live flying would only take place on Ops. Perhaps that is the origin of this story.
I wouldn't place much stock in anything that man (person) had to say anyway.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 18:08
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Contractually speaking, UP TO 50% can mean less than 1%.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 18:45
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As readers will have gathered, I know bugger all about flying.

However, anything near 100% Sim is surely lunacy for at least two reasons:

Many years ago I became [don't larf] an expert in Harrier deck landings c. 1984 ....... on an in-house computer at my Weather Centre we had unofficially installed a state of the art commercial Flight Sim. After 100 crashes on deck or in the sea, I mastered the job. I was, in the context of the game, immortal I never experienced adrenalin rushes, squeaky bum or sheer terror as things happened quicker than I could react. Similarly, I deduce that the worst that can happen in a proper Sim is failure and bollocking.

The other reason is that the pilot is the tip of a very complicated weapon. The people that plan flying, that authorise it, that brief it, that supervise it, the armourers and the sooties and the lineys and ATC and a host of other trades need the day to day exercise of getting a military aircraft safely airborne and fit for mission. The Sim exercises nothing of this.

The 100%, or anywhere near it, has to be bolleaux, surely.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 18:50
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As a fellow Penguin, agreed >100% 😀

As an aside, it was noticeable that some ATC students, graduating to the real world from School Simulators, discovered ‘real World stress’ when joining their first Units. All of a sudden it’s not a Sim game any more … you can kill people if you get it wrong.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 20:32
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Have they really named the building Strategic Defence and Security Review?
Or have Forces News misunderstood?
The extension has been named The Graham Building, after Sqn Ldr Edward Graham, a Welsh pilot who served on 72 during the Battle of Britain.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 20:50
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
can a Sim manage g forces or expose fear of flying?
Or intractable air sickness?
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 21:35
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Originally Posted by air pig
Or intractable air sickness?
Unfortunately yes
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 21:42
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Originally Posted by MPN11
As a fellow Penguin, agreed >100% 😀

As an aside, it was noticeable that some ATC students, graduating to the real world from School Simulators, discovered ‘real World stress’ when joining their first Units. All of a sudden it’s not a Sim game any more … you can kill people if you get it wrong.
I was on the old style NATS ATCO Cadet course where we did classroom work with some sim exercises then we went out to operational field units for about 6 months to learn how to REALLY do it plus we did a PPL course at the beginning of the training.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 21:42
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A 50% increase of Co*k All is still Co*k All.
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Old 13th Jun 2023, 22:23
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50% increase in pilot training must also mean an increase in QFIs?

Whence will they come?

Not as easy as augmenting a couple of squadrons of Gnats with another of Hunter T7 and GT6 was 50 years ago when the RAF was of a proper size.
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