F-35 runway vacated...faster than planned
So assuming they have bowsprings installed I know it's only a matter of pressing one button to raise the overrun cable (did it many times at Farnborough) and had '35b's been fitted with a hook, even one which just drops down, it wouldn't have run off the end.
SUGGESTION to MOD: wouldn't it be a good idea if you retrofitted '35b's with hooks if you have a known 'slippery runway' problem?
SUGGESTION to MOD: wouldn't it be a good idea if you retrofitted '35b's with hooks if you have a known 'slippery runway' problem?
Thread Starter
Marham, AFAIK, has mk1 RHAGs that use the old rubber grommets. Standard cable state is both down.
On checking, the F35B can't take a hook as there is a ton of gubbins in its rear end that make the windy bit point in all directions. (sorry to be over technical) ;-)
Given that these aircraft can automatically eject the pilot under certain circumstances, has it been cleared to use a barrier (where fitted)? My thought is it will not be cleared.
On checking, the F35B can't take a hook as there is a ton of gubbins in its rear end that make the windy bit point in all directions. (sorry to be over technical) ;-)
Given that these aircraft can automatically eject the pilot under certain circumstances, has it been cleared to use a barrier (where fitted)? My thought is it will not be cleared.
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https://insidedio.blog.gov.uk/2018/0...om-raf-marham/
22 Jan 2018 "...[RAF Marham] Runway Refurbishment - The biggest area of work in the project is the resurfacing of the station’s Air Operating Surfaces, including both runways and all the Airfield Ground Lighting. Work is progressing well and our contractors, a joint venture of Galliford Try and Lagan Construction (GTLC), have already completed the resurfacing of the runway intersection, which they managed in only three weeks. They are nearing completion on the first of the two runways...."
Infrastructure works well underway at RAF Marham
22 Jan 2018 "...[RAF Marham] Runway Refurbishment - The biggest area of work in the project is the resurfacing of the station’s Air Operating Surfaces, including both runways and all the Airfield Ground Lighting. Work is progressing well and our contractors, a joint venture of Galliford Try and Lagan Construction (GTLC), have already completed the resurfacing of the runway intersection, which they managed in only three weeks. They are nearing completion on the first of the two runways...."
Infrastructure works well underway at RAF Marham
Marham, AFAIK, has mk1 RHAGs that use the old rubber grommets. Standard cable state is both down.
On checking, the F35B can't take a hook as there is a ton of gubbins in its rear end that make the windy bit point in all directions. (sorry to be over technical) ;-)
On checking, the F35B can't take a hook as there is a ton of gubbins in its rear end that make the windy bit point in all directions. (sorry to be over technical) ;-)
No hook on the '35b but they must be installed on the '35c for carrier landings and maybe for the '35a too and it would take lots of the folding stuff to install new barriers even if they could be cleared for the F35b.
As for the ends of the runway being 'slippery when wet'; well this was well known years ago especially when you had white painted runway markings on the concrete bits too; our pilots often remarked about it even when we'd done a runway inspection to check.
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https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...af-marham-dam/ (PDF 6.4Mb) "The type of Air System Arresting System employed at RAF Marham is the Rotary Hydraulic Arresting Gear (RHAG) Mk1."
RHAG
RHAG
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd Apr 2023 at 13:05. Reason: +up
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F-35C AHS Arresting Hook System on left with the F-35A Emergency Arrest Hook on the right. The F-35A hook is used as a 'tie down' for engine runs otherwise it must be inspected and perhaps replaced after use whereas the F-35C hook is designed to be reusable. The URL in graphic no longer works so I won't add it here.
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https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...af-marham-dam/ (PDF 6.4Mb) "The type of Air System Arresting System employed at RAF Marham is the Rotary Hydraulic Arresting Gear (RHAG) Mk1."
RHAG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuV_tPBvXow
RHAG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuV_tPBvXow
Don't know where you got '1km' radius; around Marham there is an ATZ and within this, flights by UAVs are not permitted without permission.
In the case of Marham, the restriction is a circle 2.5nm radius centred on the centre of the main runway and from surface to 2,000ft agl and H24 operation.
In the case of Marham, the restriction is a circle 2.5nm radius centred on the centre of the main runway and from surface to 2,000ft agl and H24 operation.
Thread Starter
Moot point though as the image was not taken with a drone.
Also worth bearing in mind that even though an aerodrome is BLACK, it can very quickly become operational again. Once the fire crews are no longer needed then normal crash cat is restored and operations to pads, rotary activity, and alternate runway ops (if available) can recommence in the time it takes to make a radio call.
The FRZ around Marham is the same as the ATZ with the addition of stubs. 1km wide extending 5km from the runway threshold - ( Why we still see fit to mix units of measure still confounds me)
name
EG RU228B MARHAM RWY 01
description
523538N 0003307E -
523543N 0003215E -
523626N 0003225E thence anti-clockwise by the arc of a circle radius 2.5 NM centred on 523854N 0003302E to
523625N 0003319E -
523538N 0003307E
Upper limit: 2000 FT SFC
Lower limit: SFC
Class: FRZ Active H24. Unmanned aircraft flight not permitted unless permission has been granted by the relevant Air Traffic Service unit or aerodrome operator. For contact details see AIP, Part 3 - Aerodromes, Section AD 2.2
Also worth bearing in mind that even though an aerodrome is BLACK, it can very quickly become operational again. Once the fire crews are no longer needed then normal crash cat is restored and operations to pads, rotary activity, and alternate runway ops (if available) can recommence in the time it takes to make a radio call.
The FRZ around Marham is the same as the ATZ with the addition of stubs. 1km wide extending 5km from the runway threshold - ( Why we still see fit to mix units of measure still confounds me)
name
EG RU228B MARHAM RWY 01
description
523538N 0003307E -
523543N 0003215E -
523626N 0003225E thence anti-clockwise by the arc of a circle radius 2.5 NM centred on 523854N 0003302E to
523625N 0003319E -
523538N 0003307E
Upper limit: 2000 FT SFC
Lower limit: SFC
Class: FRZ Active H24. Unmanned aircraft flight not permitted unless permission has been granted by the relevant Air Traffic Service unit or aerodrome operator. For contact details see AIP, Part 3 - Aerodromes, Section AD 2.2
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As we've already said, there are no barriers at the ends of the runway at Marham although there are at other airfields, just the cables which are well displaced from the RCV.
Thread Starter
Are you confusing BARRIERS and CABLES ?
Part of ATC checks in the tower AND the caravan are that the approach is clear , nothing on the runway that should not be there and that the approach end barrier (where fitted) is correctly configured ie DOWN.
Under normal operations there is zero reason for the duty-runway approach-end barrier to ever be raised - Only during quiet period it may go UP for servicing access. ATC will be extra dilligent in checking its state beforee issuing any future clearances. Same with aircraft suddenly declaring they wish to use the non-duty runway - drilled into all ATCOs as part of their checks before issuing a clearance.
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SATCOS WHIPPING,
You miss the point that ACW342 was trying to make. On the average airfield the approach cable is set 1200 to 1500 feet in from the runway threshold. On the average fighter aircraft the angle of attack on approach is such that the hook hangs well below the height of the main landing gear..
The result of this is that the hook hits the ground some 300 to 400 feet prior to the main gear.
The average pilot will try to land well prior to a cable to ensure a good engagement and reduce the risk of "hook skip".
At an airfield that has both cables and barriers the barriers are placed within the prepared over-run just short of the threshold.
It is possible for a pilot, in his/her keenness to land well short of the cable, to allow the hook to hit the ground prior to a lowered barrier! The result is normally that the barrier is ripped out of the ground. This feat has been achieved a number of times by F4s, Lightnings and I'm sure many other types.
You miss the point that ACW342 was trying to make. On the average airfield the approach cable is set 1200 to 1500 feet in from the runway threshold. On the average fighter aircraft the angle of attack on approach is such that the hook hangs well below the height of the main landing gear..
The result of this is that the hook hits the ground some 300 to 400 feet prior to the main gear.
The average pilot will try to land well prior to a cable to ensure a good engagement and reduce the risk of "hook skip".
At an airfield that has both cables and barriers the barriers are placed within the prepared over-run just short of the threshold.
It is possible for a pilot, in his/her keenness to land well short of the cable, to allow the hook to hit the ground prior to a lowered barrier! The result is normally that the barrier is ripped out of the ground. This feat has been achieved a number of times by F4s, Lightnings and I'm sure many other types.
Thread Starter
I have not misunderstood ACW at all.
A "perfect" landing on the numbers will not result in a down hook engaging a down barrier.
However, landing short on the piano keys might.
A "perfect" landing on the numbers will not result in a down hook engaging a down barrier.
However, landing short on the piano keys might.
For aircraft with only a spindly emergency hook you don't drop them whilst airborne unless you are attempting to engage the approach end. If you dragged such a hook down the runway length to the departure end you would have very little of it left!