New RN frigate order
Thread Starter
New RN frigate order
RN orders another 5 T26'sA British shipyard has been awarded a £4.2 billion contract to build the second batch of Type 26 frigates for the Royal Navy.
Delivering on ambitions laid out in the National Shipbuilding Strategy Refresh earlier this year, the contract awarded to BAE Systems will support 1,700 British jobs over the next decade at BAE Systems sites in Govan and Scotstoun, Glasgow.
As part of the contract, BAE Systems has committed to invest £1.2 billion in the UK supply chain, supporting a further 2,300 jobs with more than 120 suppliers all over the UK.
Leading the Royal Navy’s anti-submarine warfare surface fleet, the five new City-class ships – HMS Birmingham, HMS Sheffield, HMS Newcastle, HMS Edinburgh and HMS London – will join the first three T26s already in build at Govan – HMS Glasgow, HMS Cardiff and HMS Belfast. Construction of all eight frigates is expected to be completed by the mid-2030s, with the first, HMS Glasgow, entering service by the end of 2028.
Supporting thousands of high-skilled jobs in Scotland, and more across the wider UK supply chain, this contract will continue to boost our British shipbuilding industry, galvanising the very best of British engineering, manufacturing and design.
Replacing the bulk of the retiring Type 23 fleet, the Type 26 frigates will be flexible and advanced warships with the primary purpose of anti-submarine warfare, protecting the UK’s continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent and Maritime Strike Group. At just under 150m long – around the length of three Olympic swimming pools – and with a top speed of more than 26 knots and a range of more than 7,000 nautical miles, the vessels will be capable of countering piracy and delivering humanitarian aid and disaster relief. Carrying the Sea Ceptor missile defence system - able to destroy airborne and sea surface targets - the vessels will also carry a five-inch medium calibre gun, an embarked helicopter for specific operations, radar and sonar for expert navigation and tracking adversaries.
A flexible mission bay means the vessels could also be adapted to carry specific Armed Forces and equipment tailored for operations. The Mk.41 vertical launch silo will be fitted to enable rapid-fire missile launches.
Improving build efficiency, BAE Systems has submitted a planning application for a new 175 metre long, 85 metre wide Shipbuilding Hall at Govan, which will allow two frigates to be built simultaneously under cover. This investment will be a major factor in the final five City-class ships costing less and being delivered faster than previous vessels. In the manufacturing supply chain, £248 million worth of work has been committed to Scotland, with £16 million to Wales and £749 million to England.
The vessels are designed to reduce environmental impacts, and are fitted with features - including a hydrodynamically designed hull - to optimise fuel efficiency and a diesel engine emissions abatement, which reduces nitrogen oxide exhaust. Steel will be cut on the first of the next five vessels, HMS Birmingham, this winter, marking the start of the Batch 2 build phase.
Delivering on ambitions laid out in the National Shipbuilding Strategy Refresh earlier this year, the contract awarded to BAE Systems will support 1,700 British jobs over the next decade at BAE Systems sites in Govan and Scotstoun, Glasgow.
As part of the contract, BAE Systems has committed to invest £1.2 billion in the UK supply chain, supporting a further 2,300 jobs with more than 120 suppliers all over the UK.
Leading the Royal Navy’s anti-submarine warfare surface fleet, the five new City-class ships – HMS Birmingham, HMS Sheffield, HMS Newcastle, HMS Edinburgh and HMS London – will join the first three T26s already in build at Govan – HMS Glasgow, HMS Cardiff and HMS Belfast. Construction of all eight frigates is expected to be completed by the mid-2030s, with the first, HMS Glasgow, entering service by the end of 2028.
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:
We are investing in our fleet to ensure our Royal Navy maintains its world-leading capability to protect and defend our nation at sea. This design has already been successfully exported to Australia and Canada, its already proved itself as a world-class maritime capability, securing thousands of UK jobs and strengthening alliances with our allies.Supporting thousands of high-skilled jobs in Scotland, and more across the wider UK supply chain, this contract will continue to boost our British shipbuilding industry, galvanising the very best of British engineering, manufacturing and design.
Replacing the bulk of the retiring Type 23 fleet, the Type 26 frigates will be flexible and advanced warships with the primary purpose of anti-submarine warfare, protecting the UK’s continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent and Maritime Strike Group. At just under 150m long – around the length of three Olympic swimming pools – and with a top speed of more than 26 knots and a range of more than 7,000 nautical miles, the vessels will be capable of countering piracy and delivering humanitarian aid and disaster relief. Carrying the Sea Ceptor missile defence system - able to destroy airborne and sea surface targets - the vessels will also carry a five-inch medium calibre gun, an embarked helicopter for specific operations, radar and sonar for expert navigation and tracking adversaries.
A flexible mission bay means the vessels could also be adapted to carry specific Armed Forces and equipment tailored for operations. The Mk.41 vertical launch silo will be fitted to enable rapid-fire missile launches.
BAE Systems Chief Executive Officer, Charles Woodburn, said:
This contract secures a critical UK industry and allows us to build on our long history of shipbuilding on the Clyde as we continue to deliver cutting-edge equipment to the Royal Navy into the next decade. It underpins the ongoing investments we’re making in the skills, infrastructure and technologies needed to stay at the forefront of the maritime sector and to support the UK Government’s National Shipbuilding Strategy.Improving build efficiency, BAE Systems has submitted a planning application for a new 175 metre long, 85 metre wide Shipbuilding Hall at Govan, which will allow two frigates to be built simultaneously under cover. This investment will be a major factor in the final five City-class ships costing less and being delivered faster than previous vessels. In the manufacturing supply chain, £248 million worth of work has been committed to Scotland, with £16 million to Wales and £749 million to England.
Vice Admiral Paul Marshall, DE&S Director General Ships, said:
The award of the T26 Batch 2 manufacture contract is another key milestone in the United Kingdom’s shipbuilding programme, reaffirming our commitment, alongside our industrial partners, to deliver a highly effective anti-submarine frigate fleet for the Royal Navy.The vessels are designed to reduce environmental impacts, and are fitted with features - including a hydrodynamically designed hull - to optimise fuel efficiency and a diesel engine emissions abatement, which reduces nitrogen oxide exhaust. Steel will be cut on the first of the next five vessels, HMS Birmingham, this winter, marking the start of the Batch 2 build phase.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,814
Received 141 Likes
on
65 Posts
Thread Starter
well they started the design programme in 1998 I think and they said they'd buy 8 from the mid-teens
Its just a relief that the orders are finally in - usually there is a drip feed of a couple at a time followed by "saving" one or two at the end of the run. Plus there is the 5 T31's on order as well of course.
Its just a relief that the orders are finally in - usually there is a drip feed of a couple at a time followed by "saving" one or two at the end of the run. Plus there is the 5 T31's on order as well of course.
well they started the design programme in 1998 I think and they said they'd buy 8 from the mid-teens
Its just a relief that the orders are finally in - usually there is a drip feed of a couple at a time followed by "saving" one or two at the end of the run. Plus there is the 5 T31's on order as well of course.
Its just a relief that the orders are finally in - usually there is a drip feed of a couple at a time followed by "saving" one or two at the end of the run. Plus there is the 5 T31's on order as well of course.
That was then followed by a design process from ~2009 that ended up in a giant game of chicken between MoD and BAES, which is one of the reasons that the design and build process is so long.
Thread Starter
Thanks Boffin - didn't they say that one of the reasons 2 of the T45's were cancelled was because the T26's were better value or similar? only a hazy recollection........... 
It may also have been around the time all sorts of bizarre things were being done to smooth budgets. ISTR that was about the time Jim Hutton slipped the delivery date on the carriers by two years, while still keeping the same resources on the programme.
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread Starter
Good God! The MARS programme - originally announced in 2015.......................
A cynic might think these orders just before the Budget statement are to allow the Sec State some wriggle room if the funds going forward aren't as good as he wanted....... there were many "sources close to the MoD" who said he'd resign if he didn't get the cash he'd been promised
A cynic might think these orders just before the Budget statement are to allow the Sec State some wriggle room if the funds going forward aren't as good as he wanted....... there were many "sources close to the MoD" who said he'd resign if he didn't get the cash he'd been promised
Good God! The MARS programme - originally announced in 2015.......................
A cynic might think these orders just before the Budget statement are to allow the Sec State some wriggle room if the funds going forward aren't as good as he wanted....... there were many "sources close to the MoD" who said he'd resign if he didn't get the cash he'd been promised
A cynic might think these orders just before the Budget statement are to allow the Sec State some wriggle room if the funds going forward aren't as good as he wanted....... there were many "sources close to the MoD" who said he'd resign if he didn't get the cash he'd been promised
Thread Starter
yes - it was in 2015 they announced they were "about" to order the new vessels.............. "demanding timeliene" - teh ne that runs from 2008 or getting it out yesterday 20 hours ahead of the budget?? 
I actually have some H&W shares - they used to be a small oil company but went hunting subsidies in N Ireland instead.................
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63647380Three Royal Navy support ships are to be built in Belfast after a consortium including Harland and Wolff was selected as the preferred bidder.
The £1.6bn Ministry of Defence contract is still subject to final treasury and ministerial approval which is expected early next year. The contract is expected to create 1,200 jobs at UK shipyards, 900 of which are believed to be in Belfast. Harland and Wolff last built a ship in 2003 when the Anvil Point was launched. Team Resolute, a consortium comprising of BMT, Harland and Wolff and Navantia UK, would manufacture the support ships which will provide munitions, stores and provisions to the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers, destroyers and frigates deployed at sea.
The proposal pledges that the entire final assembly for these ships would be completed at Harland and Wolff's shipyard in Belfast. Blocks and modules for the ships would also be constructed in Belfast, with other work carried out at the company's North Devon site in Appledore and at Methil and Arnish in Scotland. Each of the three ships, which will be as long as two Premier League football pitches, would be built using Bath-based company BMT's designs.
Build work would also take place at Navantia's shipyard in Cadiz, Spain.
Image source, The
The new support ships will will be as long as two Premier League football pitchesThe deal aims to deliver 200 further education opportunities, with Harland and Wolff's welding academy set to train 300 new UK welders during the contract. Harland and Wolff's chief executive John Wood said the team will make a significant investment into the UK. "We will create high quality UK jobs, apprenticeships and four facilities across the UK will have shipbuilding capabilities fit for the 21st century," he said. He added: "I think the exciting thing is really ramping up that skill base and continuing to build it, seeing a ship coming out of Belfast again that we can all be proud of and putting Belfast back on the international map."
I actually have some H&W shares - they used to be a small oil company but went hunting subsidies in N Ireland instead.................
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63647380Three Royal Navy support ships are to be built in Belfast after a consortium including Harland and Wolff was selected as the preferred bidder.
The £1.6bn Ministry of Defence contract is still subject to final treasury and ministerial approval which is expected early next year. The contract is expected to create 1,200 jobs at UK shipyards, 900 of which are believed to be in Belfast. Harland and Wolff last built a ship in 2003 when the Anvil Point was launched. Team Resolute, a consortium comprising of BMT, Harland and Wolff and Navantia UK, would manufacture the support ships which will provide munitions, stores and provisions to the Royal Navy's aircraft carriers, destroyers and frigates deployed at sea.
The proposal pledges that the entire final assembly for these ships would be completed at Harland and Wolff's shipyard in Belfast. Blocks and modules for the ships would also be constructed in Belfast, with other work carried out at the company's North Devon site in Appledore and at Methil and Arnish in Scotland. Each of the three ships, which will be as long as two Premier League football pitches, would be built using Bath-based company BMT's designs.
Build work would also take place at Navantia's shipyard in Cadiz, Spain.
Image source, The The new support ships will will be as long as two Premier League football pitchesThe deal aims to deliver 200 further education opportunities, with Harland and Wolff's welding academy set to train 300 new UK welders during the contract. Harland and Wolff's chief executive John Wood said the team will make a significant investment into the UK. "We will create high quality UK jobs, apprenticeships and four facilities across the UK will have shipbuilding capabilities fit for the 21st century," he said. He added: "I think the exciting thing is really ramping up that skill base and continuing to build it, seeing a ship coming out of Belfast again that we can all be proud of and putting Belfast back on the international map."
'World-renowned shipbuilder'
Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Heaton-Harris said it was a "fantastic testimony to Belfast's shipbuilding heritage and reputation for innovation and expertise". The UK's defence secretary, Ben Wallace, said the contract will "bolster technology transfer and key skills from a world-renowned shipbuilder". Production of the ships is due to start in 2025 with all three expected to be operational by 2032.
ISTR that when T45s 7 and 8 were cancelled in 2008, it was also announced that the then FSC programme (T23 replacement) would be accelerated. The first of those will achieve IOC just 20 years later. Heartening to see how we can drive things through when needed...
As regards the Autumn Statement, I've seen suggestions that there's been a certain amount of chicanery with the defence budget, including bringing forward future spend as a way of finessing a lack of any real increase in the short term. The problem there (IF that's what they've agreed) is that it's a bit like putting spending on the credit card: down the track there will need to be a reckoning, either a bigger uptick in spending or a more painful downward correction. Guess we'll know soon enough.
As regards the Autumn Statement, I've seen suggestions that there's been a certain amount of chicanery with the defence budget, including bringing forward future spend as a way of finessing a lack of any real increase in the short term. The problem there (IF that's what they've agreed) is that it's a bit like putting spending on the credit card: down the track there will need to be a reckoning, either a bigger uptick in spending or a more painful downward correction. Guess we'll know soon enough.
As regards the Autumn Statement, I've seen suggestions that there's been a certain amount of chicanery with the defence budget, including bringing forward future spend as a way of finessing a lack of any real increase in the short term. The problem there (IF that's what they've agreed) is that it's a bit like putting spending on the credit card: down the track there will need to be a reckoning, either a bigger uptick in spending or a more painful downward correction. Guess we'll know soon enough.
In the sense that PFI is also chicanery, albeit of a different kind. PFI avoids upfront cost because instead of paying upfront to own an asset, someone else owns the asset and you instead pay them an inflated amount for a service that gives you the use of that asset.
Thread Starter
there's something in the papers saying that BAe are not happy - claiming most of the ships will be built in Spain
Thread Starter
Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Heaton-Harris said it was a "fantastic testimony to Belfast's shipbuilding heritage and reputation for innovation and expertise".
IIRC they were down to less than 100 employees at one time - they'll need a shed load of retraining to achieve anything I expect
IIRC they were down to less than 100 employees at one time - they'll need a shed load of retraining to achieve anything I expect
Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Heaton-Harris said it was a "fantastic testimony to Belfast's shipbuilding heritage and reputation for innovation and expertise".
IIRC they were down to less than 100 employees at one time - they'll need a shed load of retraining to achieve anything I expect
IIRC they were down to less than 100 employees at one time - they'll need a shed load of retraining to achieve anything I expect
Team UK (BAES and Babcock) are now mobilising their lobbying team (certain MPs, unions etc) to try and get the decision reversed - as they did for the previous competition to try and get it collapsed, because they didn't really have a design / build solution.. Unfortunately, this time round, their design solution is a complete bodge and their build solution appears to be to try and recreate the carrier alliance. Carefully avoiding the slight complication that the two yards that did most of the heavy lifting for carrier (Portsmouth and Govan) won't be available (closed and busy building T26 respectively) and that Rosyth has yet to deliver a new-build ship and will be fairly busy with Type 31.
The Navantia/BMT solution is the best design available this time around. The risk is that H&W can't stand up enough people between contract award next year and starting build in 2025/6. However, Navantia should be good at technical training and will eventually - assuming H&W can recruit enough people, not just "graduates and apprentices" - help H&W stand up as a viable shipyard. Right in line with the Shipbuilding strategy. Is it risky? Yes - but no more risky than placing a contract for a bodged design with yards that are already toppers.
Navantia / BMT have been chasing this since 2015 - their persistence deserves reward.
Thread Starter
Agreed - Infrastrata were a small English onshore oil company, they then got into a gas storage scheme in N Ireland, then various other things. They are very good at finding sources of public (ie UK) money to support N Ireland ventures. Their knowledge of defence and ship building is not great.
A great deal will depend on Navantia for sure but they have a lot of experience working with third world shipyards which will stand them in good stead here I think
A great deal will depend on Navantia for sure but they have a lot of experience working with third world shipyards which will stand them in good stead here I think