Quality of OCU Candidates

[tim sylvester]

Was wondering what the general consensus was as to the standard of OCU candidates from Valley, in comparison with the first few graduates from the NATO Flying Training School in Canada.

[choc chip]

I think the Canada Boys have all been top notch, learning useful skills rather than getting a capacity check.

[Black 'n Yellar]

Although I believe that the first person to go to the GR7 from Canada was chopped.

[choc chip]

One man doesn't make an Air Force
How many Valley Graduates have been chopped at GR7 since then?

As all Stats experts will know, you need 12 for any trend analysis.

[Jock Jockey]

No noticeable difference, except the Canada guys are a bit more cocky.

[max mcbain]

How can 19 Sqn (or 74 Sqn for those of my era) expect to produce the quality of OCU student that NFTC has been producing for a year. Yes 19 Sqn can 'prepare' a student for an OCU but NFTC actually gives us a student who far exceeds being prepared.

[raytofclimb]

Depends which OCU Boss you talk to apparently.

wrt the last post, are they not prepared for whatever NFTC wants to prepare them for, instead of what RAF OCUs require? Bearing in mind the range of nationalities represented.

19 Sqn does the best it can with a 27 year old analogue jet, a stopwatch and a LFC. If people realised how much a place on the NFTC course costs, they would wonder why we dont invest in new jets (and trg system in general) sooner rather than later.

Ray.

[Poison Arrow]

Wot No Cooperman?

Come on Cooperman, I know you're biting at the bit to reply to this thread. I dare you, come on!

[max mcbain]

wrt Rays comment on this interesting topic i am inclined to agree. The RAF needs to replace the T1 or at least upgrade the ac with the technology that the CT155 offers. NFTC is the ideal place to take the first abo Typhoon pilots and so i believe it will prove cost effective in the long run. The chaps that have been fortunate enough to attend the programme in Canada already, are certainly in the running for the first few Typhoon slots on the completion of their first tour.

Bums on seats.........

[Cooperman]

I would expect the differences between the quality of graduates from Valley and NFTC to be nothing more than subtle ones. Having done, taught and admired the Valley bit, NFTC just offers new types of skillsets; probably more appropriate ones for future AND curreny ac.

However, (I love that word), these are early days and so far I believe both provide the OCUs as best they can for now...............

It would be foolish to draw any conclusions from 'recent' suspensions as there are many factors involved than most of you posting here may be aware of.

Damn you Poison Arrow! I took the bait!

[Wholigan]

I can't comment on the quality of output from either of the subject units as I have been out of that world for some time. However, I have spent 3 years teaching on an OCU (sorry guys - OTU) in Canada and have visited the NFTC at Cold Lake. What I can say is that I have been impressed with:

a. The standard and professionalism of the Canadians (despite the fact that they have been reamed by their Government even more than we have).

b. The tremendous facilities at NFTC.

c. The training area capabilities at Cold Lake.

d. The aircraft at Cold Lake.

This, of course, implies no denigration of the unit in North Wales, other than the facilities, the training area, the aircraft and the weather!


Whatever the situation at either base, I am sure that they both do their level best to produce the best output standard they can. As far as the range of nationalities at NFTC is concerned, I have worked on many occasions in the past with the nationalities represented there, and can only say that the people I have worked with have been excellent. Having met many of the guys at NFTC (a while ago now I admit) I have no reason to adjust my thoughts on these nationalities.

[DeaconBlue]

Readers may be interested to know that NFTC has just been the subject of serious media interest in Denmark... Another NFTC user which resulting in Ministers having to make statements etc. etc.

I gather the thrust of media attention was the NFTC was not delivering for the RDAF. Due to two main factors...

1) Wx - although NFTC do schedule to lose about 4 weeks of flying in a given year and work this into their sortie planning, it has been worse than expected

2) Serviceability - Both the Hwk 115 and the Texan are not generating quite the availability for sorties that was projected. This, of course, compounds problem 1.

NFTC is very very very expensive and the concern in the Danish media was basically they are paying a lot of money and the service is not meeting it promises. Now of course the RDAF will reduce payment in line with availability clauses / invoke LDs / whatever but the Government / RDAF is continuing to take media heat from this issue.

Now I would be the first to advocate the "don't always believe what you read" stance but I do know from CAF friends that 115 in particular has given servicability problems - lets hope BigAndExpensiveSystems iron these out for the 127 / 128 and beyond.

[CSASdriver]

Cooperman & Poison Arrow,

Imagine what we could do with a fleet of nice new Hawks at Valley and maybe somewhere else?? (Starting with "C"),

You wouldn't have a hot tub though!, and Poison, I KNOW you'd miss that!!

Regards,

CSAS

[Poison Arrow]

He/she mentioned the 'C' word, you can't do that!! Report this to the moderator immediately.
I know this forum is anonymous, but steady on. You'll be mentioning Baggy North next, oh dear, I did.

Jehovah, jehovah!

Oh, and if they do go there, gis a job.