RAF QFI Instructor Grades

[xray one]

It was all subjective (or bollox). We had a number of A2s who, by all accounts, could patter like liquid gold - but weren't allowed to teach formation or low level but still assessed as Above Average.

[Fortissimo]

Originally Posted by xray one

It was all subjective (or bollox). We had a number of A2s who, by all accounts, could patter like liquid gold - but weren't allowed to teach formation or low level but still assessed as Above Average.

Indeed so. On my CFS course as a JP student QFI we had 4 FJ pilots, one a Saudi. We had endured a formation flying phase brief that was so dismal and generally stumbly that we thought it was a spoof. Sadly not. It was followed the next morning by the brief for the first formation trip for the 3 Brit FJ pilots that was distinctly amateur, vague in parts and actually confusing even though (like the phase brief) it was delivered by a CFS Waterfront QFI. At the end we were still not quite sure what we were supposed to be doing, but we had spent a good 30 mins on the domestics. The Jag mate asked a question, to which the other F4 man replied "Don't worry, we'll sort it out in the brief." Cue the bemused look from the lead staff QFI.

We had a separate 5-min brief afterwards, just the 3 of us students, during which we agreed some of the basics. We were clearly not competent to teach, but each of us had more experience of formation than the three staff put together. It came as no surprise when I arrived at my BFTS job to find I was not allowed to lead a formation until I had jumped through all the hoops and been signed off by someone whose awareness when leading did not extend much past his own wingman.

[22N114E]

Originally Posted by Peter Carter

At Valley in the early 80s, it was rare, but not impossible, to achieve B1 on graduating from the CFS course, thereby skipping B2. Not sure on other aircraft.

Bulldog too!

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Fortissimo

... It came as no surprise when I arrived at my BFTS job to find I was not allowed to lead a formation until I had jumped through all the hoops and been signed off by someone whose awareness when leading did not extend much past his own wingman.

TBF I recall the guys on the waterfront when I went through (mid- 80s) being well aware of backgrounds and were generally more than happy to take input..

Compare and contrast with my subsequent arrival interview at the BFS where I got the impression the CFI couldn't wait to get the story out of how the last formation whoopise at that place had been caused by an ex-FJ'er....That set the tone for the next couple of years and when I got the A2 and five minutes late a phone call with the invite to go back up the road to CFS to be one of the FJers' on the JP waterfront I was gone like a dot...

[MrBernoulli]

Originally Posted by Peter Carter

At Valley in the early 80s, it was rare, but not impossible, to achieve B1 on graduating from the CFS course, thereby skipping B2. Not sure on other aircraft.

Originally Posted by 22N114E

Bulldog too!

Yes, true! When I was going through the CFS Bulldog QFI course one of the chaps on the course ahead graduated as a B1. A few years later, having returned to take up a staff position on the CFS Bulldog Sqn, I recall at least one of the new Bulldog QFIs graduating as a B1. Can remember the names of both chaps too, of whom one, sadly, died in a flying accident.

[Bill Macgillivray]

It was possible (so I was informed!) that you could obtain a B1 direct from CFS if you were an exceptional student on the course (talking 1963-4 now!). What use it was when on your first instructing tour is beyond me because you were still unable to send students on first solo's until 6 months in post anyway! (I only got the Clarkson trophy, much more fun!).
Bill

[exMudmover]

QFIs in Formation

Instructing on the JP in the mid 60s we had a QFI on the unit whose formation flying was rough as a goat’s knee. On instructional sorties the rest of the formation would wait with bated breath for his student to take over, when everything would settle down.

A lovely chap, he was an ex-Beverley co-jo. I understand their definition of close formation was having 2 aircraft in the same grid square.

ExMM