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Moskva down

Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:14
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Global Hawk over the area, so maybe an update soon.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:15
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Originally Posted by Usertim
Ö. .
/sarc on
Anyway it seems the Russians did a great job evacuating the 500 crew completely in 2 meter seas @ night in a short time, and already getting some tug ( I guess from sevastopol 170 miles away) and taking on tow a smouldering hulk perhaps still very dangerous
/sarc off
I thought the Russians always deploy ocean tugs with their major units, anticipating a major breakdown? [/sarcasm] 😎
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:25
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OH Orac, That is absolute GOLD, That image deserves recognition.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:25
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Intriguing to watch the hoops they jump through in order to spin a suitable Russian narrative to apply to any situation, however bad.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:30
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Just a thought - if there is even a hint of NATO involvement in this attack, things could get 'interesting' in the next day or two.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:41
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Originally Posted by papa_sierra
Global Hawk over the area, so maybe an update soon.
Interesting the RQ-4 is showing up on FR24, but not on ADS-B Exchange.

Was there a Forte call sign up last night?
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:51
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Nutty

That video seems incompatible with an attack happening around midnight in bad weather conditions.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 13:52
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Originally Posted by Frostchamber
Intriguing to watch the hoops they jump through in order to spin a suitable Russian narrative to apply to any situation, however bad.
well it is technically correct, an ordinance explosion caused by a fire which is under investigation. The fire was probably caused by a direct hit from a neptune missile.

Ethical Question for you military people, is it still OK to fire upon an enemy warship even though it may be conducting a rescue operation.

Last edited by Xeptu; 14th Apr 2022 at 14:03.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:07
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Perhaps Ukraine could trigger another accidental fire on another ship in order to make things more obvious to the russian public.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:09
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
well it is technically correct, an ordinance explosion caused by a fire which is under investigation. The fire was probably caused by a direct hit from a neptune missile.

Ethical Question for you military people, is it still OK to fire upon an enemy warship even though it may be conducting a rescue operation.
In this situation, it's a yes from me. If it is not sunk it could become operational again and be a threat. Take it out as soon as you have the shot.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:13
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How many enquiries were there into the legitimacy of the Belgrano. If itís enemy itís a target.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:15
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
well it is technically correct, an ordinance explosion caused by a fire which is under investigation. The fire was probably caused by a direct hit from a neptune missile.

Ethical Question for you military people, is it still OK to fire upon an enemy warship even though it may be conducting a rescue operation.
you'd take out an enemy tank on tow so it won't be coming at you after repairs.
wouldn't shoot a man/woman on water, but the vessel...
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:18
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
Just a thought - if there is even a hint of NATO involvement in this attack, things could get 'interesting' in the next day or two.
Unlikely in my opinion. NATO countries are already having a substantial impact on the war through the supply of weapons and intelligence. If Russia thought it could gain military advantage by expanding the war, then it has more than sufficient justification to do so. The costs to Russia of direct aggression towards NATO countries or military assets would massively outweigh any advantage.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Beamr
you'd take out an enemy tank on tow so it won't be coming at you after repairs.
wouldn't shoot a man/woman on water, but the vessel...
That's my thinking. I wouldn't fire upon an enemy vessel (not a warship) that is conducting a rescue operation, but if it's another warship then it's fair game.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:26
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Originally Posted by Davef68
Interesting the RQ-4 is showing up on FR24, but not on ADS-B Exchange.

Was there a Forte call sign up last night?
There are two showing up on ADS-B today but only one on FR24. FR24 does appear to show a more complete track though.

I didn't see any last night though.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:49
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Pentagon is saying she hasn’t sunk and appears to be under tow to Sebastopol.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/14/europ...-ml/index.html
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 15:32
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Pentagon is saying she hasnít sunk and appears to be under tow to Sebastopol.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/14/europ...-ml/index.html
ORAC, according to that CNN article itís the Russians who say sheís under tow. The US assesses that she is making her own way eastwards.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 15:49
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So....Admiral Kirby at the US DOD says Moskva is under its own power and steaming eastwards, other reports say it is being towed, some reports say all of the crew had been evacuated, fires contained (meaning extinguished?), perhaps essential crew returned to man the ship if it is either under tow or steaming under its own power?

Perhaps we might wait for more definitive and non-contradictory reports to tell the story.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 16:23
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Originally Posted by SASless
So....Admiral Kirby at the US DOD says Moskva is under its own power and steaming eastwards, other reports say it is being towed, some reports say all of the crew had been evacuated, fires contained (meaning extinguished?), perhaps essential crew returned to man the ship if it is either under tow or steaming under its own power?

Perhaps we might wait for more definitive and non-contradictory reports to tell the story.
There even seems to be some discrepancy about which way up it is!
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 16:24
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Originally Posted by SASless
So....Admiral Kirby at the US DOD says Moskva is under its own power and steaming eastwards, other reports say it is being towed, some reports say all of the crew had been evacuated, fires contained (meaning extinguished?), perhaps essential crew returned to man the ship if it is either under tow or steaming under its own power?

Perhaps we might wait for more definitive and non-contradictory reports to tell the story.
It probably doesn't make much odds either way; by both side's accounts it sounds like it's sufficiently damaged to keep it out of the rest of the fight, and will consume more resources afloat than at the bottom of the sea. Russia's recent track record for getting capital ships back into service isn't exactly outstanding...
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