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Dogfight Practice

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Dogfight Practice

Old 12th Apr 2022, 09:25
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Dogfight Practice

Anyone in Brancaster (Norfolk) this morning, was teated to a wonderfully noisy display of dogfight practice!
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 12:03
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Or was it poor formation flying on display?
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 15:08
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F15's have been playing over Norwich off and on all day.
Great to see when the cloud allows!
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 15:16
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Practising for something?
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 15:30
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Originally Posted by VictorGolf View Post
Practising for something?
Most certainly.

Practicing for dog-fighting like they have done almost daily since the development of aircraft for air to air combat. Just part of normal training.
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 16:47
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1 vs 1 at about 1000 this morning, over the top of the flight path of NWI 27 end and seriously having a good bash at each other. Had the fortunate experience of handling them at Cott VASS many years ago so was watching them with the next door neighbour explaining what a beast they are. One did end up sitting on his tail with burners on and all energy to manoeuvre swiftly gone. Never seen that before. Enjoyable to see them as I will be moving soon and will not see any fast air where I am going.
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 17:25
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Have seen F15's over Thirsk and York dogfighting on several occasions.
A lot of the manoeuvres seem to be `who can stall out the other guy first`. Have seen several go high AOA to get the guy above and then seemingly run out of energy.
It's a bit sobering and thought provoking that they may be doing this for real at some point.
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 17:51
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It never fails to impress. Since LoO closed we have seen more fast and pointy activity playing overhead. Something reassuring feeling the windows rattle. :-)
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 19:09
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Actually they are practising for a big `Airshow` and flypast as uninvited guests on 9 May......
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Old 12th Apr 2022, 21:43
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Out walking the dog near Blakeney, it was great to watch, loads of noise. Bit later on, a KC 135R drifted over, making stately progress southbound.

Gatecrashing the 9th of May? My, wouldn’t that be a spectacle.
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 07:39
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Send a Cessna.........................
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 08:47
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Send a Cessna.........................
Gosh, I'd forgotten all about that!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20609795
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 11:41
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From the apparent sound source (we seldom have good enough vis to see them) the 'playpen' seems to be close overhead. I'm a little bemused at the perceived need for such tactics - much that is published suggests that visual contact has little, or no, place in modern fighter combat. Is all this 'multi shoot down sight unseen' capability just a myth ?
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 22:34
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
From the apparent sound source (we seldom have good enough vis to see them) the 'playpen' seems to be close overhead. I'm a little bemused at the perceived need for such tactics - much that is published suggests that visual contact has little, or no, place in modern fighter combat. Is all this 'multi shoot down sight unseen' capability just a myth ?
Infantry can call in fire support from aircraft, tanks, artillery. They carry anti-tank weapons, machine guns and rifles. At the end of the day, they likely still carry a bayonet or a knife, potentially both, and they train in un-armed combat.
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 22:56
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Originally Posted by flighthappens View Post
Infantry can call in fire support from aircraft, tanks, artillery. They carry anti-tank weapons, machine guns and rifles. At the end of the day, they likely still carry a bayonet or a knife, potentially both, and they train in un-armed combat.
"It's just a flesh wound". Sorry could not resist about the comment "unarmed combat" (no arms). In respect to dogfighting one does have to wonder that if you are in a situation for gun's than not only you but your opponent have either both stuffed up or things are critical for both. Logic would indicate that if the BVR fight was not successful than shoot and scoot to fight another day is the best option in most cases. The infantry do not have the best option to shoot and scoot, especially at high speed, so having a backup, unarmed combat, is probably not a bad idea.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 00:44
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
"It's just a flesh wound". Sorry could not resist about the comment "unarmed combat" (no arms). In respect to dogfighting one does have to wonder that if you are in a situation for gun's than not only you but your opponent have either both stuffed up or things are critical for both. Logic would indicate that if the BVR fight was not successful than shoot and scoot to fight another day is the best option in most cases. The infantry do not have the best option to shoot and scoot, especially at high speed, so having a backup, unarmed combat, is probably not a bad idea.
The point being that it is probable (for a myriad of reasons) that at some point in an A2A shooting match that a WVR fight will occur.

It therefore makes some sense to prepare for it.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 01:16
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FJ Drivers are equipped with a Default Setting that deploys Fangs and a unleashes a driving desire to prove their mettle at aeronautical fencing when given the chance.....or they would not be so well known for their introspection and humility especially when mixed with alcohol and estrogen tainted phremones lingering in the presence of fleshly targets of opportunity.

However....if as others have suggested....were that done for keeps then with all of the high tech wizardry they have access to in their new steeds.....perhaps if an opponent finds a way to get inside their safe space....they best know how to do the Fandango.

Plus...it must be a hoot to do all that at the Taxpayers expense and see where the edges of the envelop lay....both for machine and Man (and the Sisters too of course)

As one who was taught the Spirit of the Bayonet.... done correctly there are no mere flesh wounds involved.

Last edited by SASless; 14th Apr 2022 at 11:24.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 02:28
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
"It's just a flesh wound". Logic would indicate that if the BVR fight was not successful than shoot and scoot to fight another day is the best option in most cases.
Not sure that it is that safe to leave a BVR fight, as the signature of a retreating aircraft is much larger than the frontal presentation\.
Presumably if the opponent has a longer range missile, aircraft scooting present an attractive target.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 06:18
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
FJ Drivers are equipped with a Default Setting that deploys Fangs and a unleashes a driving desire to prove their mettle at aeronautical fencing when given the chance.....or they would not be so well known for their introspection and humility especially when mixed with alcohol and estrogen tainted pheromones lingering in the presence of fleshly targets of opportunity.

However....if as others have suggested....were that done for keeps then with all of the high tech wizardry they have access to in their new steeds.....perhaps if an opponent finds a way to get inside their safe space....they best know how to do the Fandango.

Plus...it must be a hoot to do all that at the Taxpayers expense and see where the edges of the envelop lay....both for machine and Man (and the Sisters too of course)

As one who was taught the Spirit of the Bayonet.... done correctly there are no mere flesh wounds involved.
So well put SASless.

The justification of eyes on target and having the SA in a situation was very accurate many years ago. But with all the "high tech wizardry" it is hard to believe the mark 1 eyeball is still the best bet.

etudiant, point taken but to attempt to close on an opponent with missiles remaining due you being out would probably present as just if not more inviting target. And at some stage one has to disengage.

flighthappens. Absolutely and as been eloquently put, "best know how to Fandango". On that point we must be getting very close to the armament that will negate guns. Hopefully a bit more successful than the
60's were a number of fighters did not have guns in the mistaken belief of the missiles.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 07:04
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Not sure that it is that safe to leave a BVR fight, as the signature of a retreating aircraft is much larger than the frontal presentation\.
Presumably if the opponent has a longer range missile, aircraft scooting present an attractive target.
But always consider your teamates callsigns ....If you are in a four ship with 'Leggit', 'Scarper' and 'New Pants' ....then you might be on your own!
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