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More bitcoin idiocy

Old 26th Mar 2022, 14:38
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More bitcoin idiocy

Yet another fraud theft described on the Beeb newspage. The relevance here is that the 'victim' was an ex-RAF Sqn Ldr. The 'bait', apparently, was yet another 'get-rich-quick' scheme based on the 'Emperors clothes' nonsense - bitcoin. The usual 'double your money overnight' sort of rubbish, with follow up ensnarement when the obviously nonsensical claims, turned out to be nonsensical. In theory this chap must have had a modicum of intelligence, yet he fell for the original spiel and continued when commonsense had to say he was being 'conned' !
These reports - and there are more and more of them daily, are becoming common currency (forgive the pun) for consumer programmes and the like. The (to me) most notable omission from the 'post-mortems' is the motivation on the victim's part ... greed. Why do people who, in almost all cases, have sufficient wealth, possessions, housing etc., feel the need to indulge in an enterprise. which by its very nature - quick, excessive profits - has to be chancy. ? When is enough not enough ?
Please reassure me that the following mantras don't need to be spelled out again .....
"If it seems to good to be true, IT IS !"
"
There is NO such thing as a free lunch !"
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 14:44
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served 22 years in the RAF and retired as a squadron leader, so felt he knew what he was doing.
Arrogance is what did it.

Link to story
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 15:18
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Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.

Yes, there are a number of common themes to all such cases when looking at news stories written after the fact with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Generally in the real world it doesn't start with "We'll double your money for you, overnight" but with something a lot more plausible that is maybe slightly better than your average return.

Never forget that a) Fraudsters make a living by being convincing and b) they've got a lot more experience at conning people out of money than you have of avoiding cons.

Also while y'all are being quick to judge, remember than fraudsters are every bit as much a criminal as your burglars, yet we put no pressure on politicians to deal with fraud, precisely because of the arrogance displayed above - everyone believes they're too smart to be conned, until they are (in the same way that everyone thinks they're an above average driver, or if you've ever left anything valuable on display in your car, you deserved to be robbed). The linked article says it all - 39% of crime with 2% of police resource.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 15:21
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Originally Posted by trim it out View Post
Arrogance is what did it.
That's perhaps a little harsh. Don't forget the people who do this are professionals who have honed a "craft" and unless you immediately say no[1], it's probably as difficult to escape from them as it is to escape from a drug addiction

Professional v Amateur - who do you think will win?



[1] and yes I agree with "If it's too good to be true . . ."
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 15:24
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and one more thing: these criminals generally rely on people being so embarrassed that they keep quiet about it, thereby making their job easier

Hats off to this man for having the courage to come forward and admit to what has happened to him, to what he's done
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 15:27
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Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.
Or, according to Collins;
showing an exaggerated opinion of one's own importance, merit, ability
"I'm 77 years old. I'm a mature man, I've fought in two wars, I've had a commission with the RAF for 22 years. I've flown around the world, I have experienced death, and yet I have committed this gross error. It's very, very difficult to explain."
The old man is in denial. Maybe he was the PRI fund manager back in the day and that's where he gets his financial acumen from

On reflection perhaps I have been slightly obtuse. I'm sure the man feels gutted to have lost his money to fraud while I was concentrating more on the involvement in the crypto world, which has all the warnings possible about the risks. Still not sure why he's banging on about his previous service though.

Last edited by trim it out; 26th Mar 2022 at 16:37. Reason: Reflection
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 15:41
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He's an old mate and colleague, so I'll just say "How tragic".
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 19:47
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Smile Myrh...

Funny how some see Bitcoin as a fluke. A get rich quick scheme. All investments are about the trust the majority have in it. With newer forms of money this tends to be a rocky start, with lots of people (parasites) abusing the early adopters and taking their money. This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing. The same individual could have lost his/here money on buying tulip bulbs....
The main thing about the monetary system is trust and believe. Why do you accept a tenner whilst the paper is only worth maybe 10 cents. That's because you believe in the myth the paper is worth the amount that is written on it. As long as you and the majority believes that, its worth a tenner.
The same goes for Crypto (and Bitcoin). As long as there is trust that it has a worth, it's fine. And that's all there is to it. No more, no less. Trust gone, money gone. And that goes for every token of money. No matter if its Pounds, Euros, Dollars, Rubles, or Bitcoin.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:05
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Tragic news but it looks like his family are rallying, which is great news. At least he has a Service pension that many do not have when caught out like this. As a GD(Ground) mate and the head of a RAFA Branch near the south coast, then you would have expected him to be a wee bit more savvy - I guess it shows it can happen to anyone caught off their guard.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:17
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Originally Posted by neebother View Post
Funny how some see Bitcoin as a fluke. A get rich quick scheme. All investments are about the trust the majority have in it. With newer forms of money this tends to be a rocky start, with lots of people (parasites) abusing the early adopters and taking their money. This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing. The same individual could have lost his/here money on buying tulip bulbs....
The main thing about the monetary system is trust and believe. Why do you accept a tenner whilst the paper is only worth maybe 10 cents. That's because you believe in the myth the paper is worth the amount that is written on it. As long as you and the majority believes that, its worth a tenner.
The same goes for Crypto (and Bitcoin). As long as there is trust that it has a worth, it's fine. And that's all there is to it. No more, no less. Trust gone, money gone. And that goes for every token of money. No matter if its Pounds, Euros, Dollars, Rubles, or Bitcoin.
Reason why you accept a tenner is because you can pay with it and no one questions that very idea unlike crypto currencies… Its never about the value of the paper but it has a real need like paying taxes or morthage with it unlike cryptos…
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:26
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Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.

Yes, there are a number of common themes to all such cases when looking at news stories written after the fact with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Generally in the real world it doesn't start with "We'll double your money for you, overnight" but with something a lot more plausible that is maybe slightly better than your average return..
Have to disagree with you there. The "mini-bond" companies like London Capital Finance were offering much higher rates : LCF was offering 8% when 20 year municipal bonds were only offering 2%.. The difference is so striking that it really ought to hit anyone. The other thing was that these companies told outright lies about being regulated, which a two minute search would have shown was untrue, this then hopefully triggering alarm bells.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:28
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Originally Posted by neebother View Post
This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing
No, but the fact that it's basically set up to hep criminals be criminals does

as does the amount of electricity used in mining operations (about the same as all of Finland apparently)

Last edited by Sue Vêtements; 26th Mar 2022 at 20:52.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:42
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I remember the happy days of chasing interest rates around 8% with a LOT of loose cash. I escaped intact from Northern Rock and Kaupthing with my money intact, just in time … in fact I have just received my final £128 from the IoM Depositors Compensation Scheme after Kaupthing crashed. But unprotected deposits? No way!

Sorry, Graeme, I can understand why … but it was a Bridge Too Far.

[PS … I had the famous Indian-based “Microsoft Windows” scam call again today, after a year of peace! I greeted him cheerfully, before inviting him to die.]

Last edited by MPN11; 26th Mar 2022 at 20:53.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 20:43
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A desperately sad story.
My sympathies to him and all his family.
Don't ever forget - it can happen to you!
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 21:38
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It can happen to anyone. A couple of years ago, a friend was tricked into allowing an outsider to take control of his computer, and as he said "I could only watch as my bank account was drained". I was astounded, as this man is very computer literate and real-world-savvy. "Yes, but he was very persuasive". Luckily, the bank in this case did refund the money,
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 23:13
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Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements View Post
No, but the fact that it's basically set up to hep criminals be criminals does
This is actually a common myth, peddled largely by those who passed on the Bitcoin opportunity, and who now resent the genuine life-changing gains enjoyed by those who didn't dismiss the idea out of hand. Every Bitcoin transaction leaves an immutable record on the blockchain - an online ledger which can be viewed by anyone. Only the very recent Taproot upgrade has increased the level of privacy. If you're involved in criminal activity, you'd better hope that the authorities don't get their hands on your wallet address, because if they link you to it, then they will instantly have full details of every transaction that wallet has ever interacted with down to eight decimal places (Satoshis). Bitcoin is a terrible vehicle for conducting money laundering etc.

The real medium of choice for serious criminals is cash. High denomination Dollar bills, Euro notes, Pound notes. Notoriously difficult to track and trace. Easy to use. The crowd who lobby for Bitcoin to be banned to "stop criminals" need to be banning banknotes instead if they want to cause real problems to those engaged in serious crime.
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 23:42
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An acquaintance on the board at Lloyds - London told us many years ago that..."everything is worth nothing".
Some time later I understood what he meant. Perhaps he is correct. In the material sense.
Some family members have installed phone call screening services on their land lines. Works really well.
But it costs. Phone banking seem to be assisting us with a few 'master caution' steps to tread through before you hit the send button.
That has to help. I now ask my wing girl to cross check the important stuff that could hurt us as we age.
I feel very sad for the person who lost in this thread. Growing old is not for the faint hearted.
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Old 27th Mar 2022, 06:50
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn View Post
This is actually a common myth, peddled largely by those who passed on the Bitcoin opportunity, and who now resent the genuine life-changing gains enjoyed by those who didn't dismiss the idea out of hand.
I was always sceptical, but decided to gamble on crypto currencies a few years ago. It was literally that, a gamble, and I accepted that there was a chance I could lose everything that I put in. I didn't, I almost quadrupled a not insignificant sum, decided it was too good to be true, and turned my crypto back into good old £ that I can actually do something with.

I did literally hundreds of hours of research both before and during my crypto adventure, and came out more confused than I went in. Perhaps I am just getting old. I can see no real utility for 'blockchains', 'ledgers' etc that can't already be done better by custom built software, that doesn't have a dodgy investment scheme attached to it.

Crypto currencies are the very definition of a pyramid scheme, but I suppose whilst there are still people who are willing to put their money into them, their value may rise 👍. Just don't get caught holding the bag when the big holders decide it's time to get off the ride and take your money with them.

Clearly this is purely my opinion, and I may well be entirely wrong and wish one day that I was a true believer and continued to invest all my spare cash in crypto rather than the very diverse portfolio that I do have. Somehow I doubt it!
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Old 27th Mar 2022, 10:39
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
I remember the happy days of chasing interest rates around 8% with a LOT of loose cash. I escaped intact from Northern Rock and Kaupthing with my money intact, just in time … in fact I have just received my final £128 from the IoM Depositors Compensation Scheme after Kaupthing crashed. But unprotected deposits? No way!

Sorry, Graeme, I can understand why … but it was a Bridge Too Far.

[PS … I had the famous Indian-based “Microsoft Windows” scam call again today, after a year of peace! I greeted him cheerfully, before inviting him to die.]
I had a call about my "windows system"......I think it was "Colin" from Bangalore or some such. Anyhow, when I told him his timing was perfect, he was overjoyed........until I asked him whether he specialised in wood or UPVC windows. Imagine my disappointment when he told me to Foxtrot Oscar! He wasn't happy......scum! My father in law did fall for it........what a mess!! I feel sorry for this chap and take the view "there but for the grace of God........" My own father's details were found on a target list for a "Boiler Room" scam operation.........these people are vermin and it doesn't matter how switched on I think I am, I won't gloat over this poor man's momentary lapse of judgement.
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Old 27th Mar 2022, 14:38
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Just don't get caught holding the bag when the big holders decide it's time to get off the ride and take your money with them.
I have absolutely no idea if this can actually happen. If it's remotely possible, then that's all I need to know about crypto.

CG
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