Cheap Aircraft for Resistance Fighters
During WW2, the French Resistance used assassins on bicycles. Pedalling down a street they would spot their mark, whip out a pistol and a single shot hopefully to the head then escape by using crowds and back alleys for cover. By the accounts I have read, it didn't have any material effect, but it did rattle the Germans quite significantly.
War is not won by a single heroic act (except in US war movies - they always have to have the singular hero).
War is won by multiple players nawing away, little bite by little bite.
"modern look down-shoot down multimode pulse Doppler radar will detect and then support a missile to target even at 30ft"
Before this thread comes to a dead stick ending... would an electric powered aircraft be harder to track? presumably with a lower heat signature? Do air to air missiles have radar as well as thermal sensors?
Would agree that drones are the go, perhaps we may see the resourceful Ukrainians have a go...
Whilst we are on air to air combat 101, is it feasible to adapt a consumer drone, load with a lightweight explosive payload (say 0.3 kilo ) to fly itself into the source of enemy radar and at least disrupt it?
Mjb
Before this thread comes to a dead stick ending... would an electric powered aircraft be harder to track? presumably with a lower heat signature? Do air to air missiles have radar as well as thermal sensors?
Would agree that drones are the go, perhaps we may see the resourceful Ukrainians have a go...
Whilst we are on air to air combat 101, is it feasible to adapt a consumer drone, load with a lightweight explosive payload (say 0.3 kilo ) to fly itself into the source of enemy radar and at least disrupt it?
Mjb
I've often thought that an R66 painted green would make a useful cheap short range military aircraft - bear with me on this!
They're cheap under $1M
You could put bench seats on the outside for 4 pax or stretchers.
When compared to a $20M 20 seat transport helicopter they're 4x cheaper per seat mile. Yes, to carry those 20 pax you'd need 5x the pilots, but initial/recurrent training can be done on an R22. Having 20 guys in 5 aircraft rather than one spreads the risk and requires 5x the ordinance to destroy.
They're cheap under $1M
You could put bench seats on the outside for 4 pax or stretchers.
When compared to a $20M 20 seat transport helicopter they're 4x cheaper per seat mile. Yes, to carry those 20 pax you'd need 5x the pilots, but initial/recurrent training can be done on an R22. Having 20 guys in 5 aircraft rather than one spreads the risk and requires 5x the ordinance to destroy.
Surprised there is anything but drones left, but there seems to be few jet Fighters left, and gunships, which are common types, HInds, Mig 29s. Got to be a few 29s that are on the market surely or perhaps from Ukrainian ally's even? perhaps the polish could donate to a good cause and re type on Falcons. There's got to be a few 100 Ukrainian pilots still familiar on the type. which is what mainly matters.
Takes a brave pilot tho to fly against such odds but they have shown how brave they are by doing just that.
And with lines of tanks and fuel & ammunition trucks 3 miles long!, no warning from a 30mm Cannon, if your the target anyhow. same Cal as ADEN and A-10s Avenger. so sure some of you have experience with this type o thing.
Takes a brave pilot tho to fly against such odds but they have shown how brave they are by doing just that.
And with lines of tanks and fuel & ammunition trucks 3 miles long!, no warning from a 30mm Cannon, if your the target anyhow. same Cal as ADEN and A-10s Avenger. so sure some of you have experience with this type o thing.
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This is an interesting concept and one that I've often wondered about - if you have two weapons systems from two different historical timeframes, could they actually engage each other? I'm thinking not of a 300, but say a Sopwith Camel or even an archer with longbow. I'm not saying they could do any damage, but could they even be detected and given the relative speeds, could they be engaged?
But to get back to the original question, I wonder why drones aren't one of the main battlefield weapons at this point - not a huge UAV, but a $1000 DJI Phantom or something similar. Sure the payload wouldn't be great, but does it need to be if it can find a three mile long convoy, hover in front of the windshield of the first vehicle and explode?
I'm also surprised they haven't been used more extensively for assassination attempts. We already have plexiglass walls surrounding people giving speeches, but there's no plexiglass roof, AND the coordinates should be already known, so no need to have a jammable control signal. That just seems like a logical next step, becaause it seems like everything humans invent sooner or later gets turned into a weapons system, aircraft being the perfect example
But to get back to the original question, I wonder why drones aren't one of the main battlefield weapons at this point - not a huge UAV, but a $1000 DJI Phantom or something similar. Sure the payload wouldn't be great, but does it need to be if it can find a three mile long convoy, hover in front of the windshield of the first vehicle and explode?
I'm also surprised they haven't been used more extensively for assassination attempts. We already have plexiglass walls surrounding people giving speeches, but there's no plexiglass roof, AND the coordinates should be already known, so no need to have a jammable control signal. That just seems like a logical next step, becaause it seems like everything humans invent sooner or later gets turned into a weapons system, aircraft being the perfect example
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Damn, I forgot the other thing I meant to say - what about hand held lasers?
Might not be much use against fast jets, but helicopters might be vulnerable to them (or for that matter ground vehicles). It seems like it's a problem for civil aviation, so why not use them as a cheap and easy to use resistance weapon?
Sure you'd give away your position, but that might not matter at that point anyway
Might not be much use against fast jets, but helicopters might be vulnerable to them (or for that matter ground vehicles). It seems like it's a problem for civil aviation, so why not use them as a cheap and easy to use resistance weapon?
Sure you'd give away your position, but that might not matter at that point anyway
The ol’ interwebz has plenty of sites where you can buy Chinese handheld lasers that are verboten in pretty much any Western country for being too strong.
To reiterate an earlier point, allegedly our Ukrainian friends have scored some successes with Turkish made TB-2 drones.
To reiterate an earlier point, allegedly our Ukrainian friends have scored some successes with Turkish made TB-2 drones.
Ukraine has been acquiring Turkish-made drones since 2019 to use its high-performance cameras to monitor the battlefield and laser-correct artillery strikes. The TB2 can stay in the air for 24 hours and has an altitude limit of roughly 7,620 meters. The drone can be controlled from up to nearly 300 km, weather permitting.
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How much are the turkish kargu drones. How long to ship 500 to start with another 1000 on order. Setup with one of three charges antiarmor/antipersonnel/thermobaric. 20 drones firing the equivalent of a 1/2 claymore or shaped charge would devastate a motorized column or infantry batallion. In addition it could be sent after radar and surveillance systems blinding the enemy. Forbes has a write up on it 20/6/17
kind of the ultimate in assymetric warfare.
kind of the ultimate in assymetric warfare.
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well I bet even I could hit eight drones if they were hovering in a tight box like that
...but if I was the attacker, I'd send my eight drones on different routes, as fast as possible and probably not in a straight line either
...but if I was the attacker, I'd send my eight drones on different routes, as fast as possible and probably not in a straight line either
Drain Bamaged
On a side note, one or two decades ago the French Air Force hired as contractor a local company flying Pawnees for a one time "test" The goal was to fly undetected (No Awacs involved) To a particular base... Which they managed to do! 
All by flying below tree tops and following/Slaloming a big power line!
I'm sure this flaw has been corrected since.
All by flying below tree tops and following/Slaloming a big power line!I'm sure this flaw has been corrected since.
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The there was Mathias Rust . . .
@sue vetements - Have you ever seen a C-RAM operate effectively against multiple rockets and mortars? They aren’t exactly a small swarm in formation! The drones in formation in the video was a test of the ammunition’s effectiveness to take down several drones with a single round. The Rheinmetall is designed to do that and deal with many more drones than shown in that demonstration video.
You can see the type of airbrust ammunition they are developing for this specific purpose here:
Sadly, swarming drones are some of the Koolaid/Snake Oil that the idiot called Williamson swallowed when he was a dismal Secretary of State for Defence. The swarming drones are going to need to be highly capable (read expensive) and so all the toy quadcopter developments and trials that we see from uniformed personnel that fly their pride and joy with military insignia/roundel on it, that spout that there will be no aircrew required in the future, are sadly deluded - like Captain Smith in his unsinkable ship called Titanic.
You can see the type of airbrust ammunition they are developing for this specific purpose here:
Sadly, swarming drones are some of the Koolaid/Snake Oil that the idiot called Williamson swallowed when he was a dismal Secretary of State for Defence. The swarming drones are going to need to be highly capable (read expensive) and so all the toy quadcopter developments and trials that we see from uniformed personnel that fly their pride and joy with military insignia/roundel on it, that spout that there will be no aircrew required in the future, are sadly deluded - like Captain Smith in his unsinkable ship called Titanic.