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US Nuclear sub has hit an unknown object in the South China sea

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US Nuclear sub has hit an unknown object in the South China sea

Old 9th Oct 2021, 21:32
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An x-submariner looks at it
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 05:34
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My last sailboat had downward sonar (depth gauge) and forward looking sonar for going into an anchorage. I assume these low current devices are not stealthy. I can understand a sub switching these off in time of war or when in foreign waters and wanting to be stealthy, but why not use them for the rest of the time? Obviously I am a pilot who can sail, but not a submariner! But is there a balance between safety and stealthiness?
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 09:35
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Originally Posted by ChrisJ800 View Post
My last sailboat had downward sonar (depth gauge) and forward looking sonar for going into an anchorage. I assume these low current devices are not stealthy. I can understand a sub switching these off in time of war or when in foreign waters and wanting to be stealthy, but why not use them for the rest of the time? Obviously I am a pilot who can sail, but not a submariner! But is there a balance between safety and stealthiness?
Even in peacetime, attack submarines spend their time doing stuff they don't want anyone else to see. How better to practice tracking and getting into position to attack an adversary, than doing it for real? How better to gather sonar and other data on your counterpart's vessels and capabilities? This is no secret; everyone's doing it, everyone knows everyone's doing it, and there are some pretty good books on the subject.

I should imagine the holy grail of underwater warfare is being able to track and take out your adversary's SSBNs, so you can bet there's a lot of effort going into this; if anyone does have that capability, you're not going to read about it for a very long time...
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 10:31
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Originally Posted by pasta View Post
Even in peacetime, attack submarines spend their time doing stuff they don't want anyone else to see. How better to practice tracking and getting into position to attack an adversary, than doing it for real? How better to gather sonar and other data on your counterpart's vessels and capabilities? This is no secret; everyone's doing it, everyone knows everyone's doing it, and there are some pretty good books on the subject.

I should imagine the holy grail of underwater warfare is being able to track and take out your adversary's SSBNs, so you can bet there's a lot of effort going into this; if anyone does have that capability, you're not going to read about it for a very long time...
Please list some of these pretty good books. Thanks
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 11:23
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Originally Posted by Bueno Hombre View Post
Please list some of these pretty good books. Thanks
"The Silent Deep" by Jinks and Hennessey is the most comprehensive account I've read; if you're only going to read one book about submarines, this would be my recommendation.
"Blind Man's Bluff" is also a pretty good read, a bit lighter, with more of a focus on cable-tapping operations.
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 13:57
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Pasta is correct - all submarine arms spend their time trying on sneaking around. TF reminds us of the Soviet navies efforts in Sweden and of course the Finns often seem to have "unknown objects" wandering about their waters.

The British and the French managed a collision a few years back and there are stories, sometimes published as part of someone's obituary, about some scary close encounters in the past.

No-one talks about today of course but you can bet it's going on 24/7
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 15:49
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And the Royal Navy presumably still has shares in plywood and black paint so they can pretend it didn't happen - and I don't mean Ambush, Astute, Vanguard, Superb or Trafalgar.

It is something it has Talent for but then that wasn't the first time either.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 02:02
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Originally Posted by ChrisJ800 View Post
Obviously I am a pilot who can sail, but not a submariner!
Have you considered that might be the next logical step for you? In progression of interests and hobbies.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 02:51
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Originally Posted by pasta View Post
"The Silent Deep" by Jinks and Hennessey is the most comprehensive account I've read... .
Ordered on Kindle just now.
The Secret State was good - so looking forward to this.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 19:25
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
And the Royal Navy presumably still has shares in plywood and black paint so they can pretend it didn't happen - and I don't mean Ambush, Astute, Vanguard, Superb or Trafalgar. It is something it has Talent for but then that wasn't the first time either.
Knew I had this filed away somewhere. From October, 1968;


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Old 11th Oct 2021, 20:22
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Recounted in reasonable detail from p311 in my copy of "The Silent Deep"

(For clarity, that's the HMS Warspite incident)

Last edited by Levelling_the_Land; 11th Oct 2021 at 20:24. Reason: Clarity
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 20:43
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Originally Posted by Levelling_the_Land View Post
Recounted in reasonable detail from p311 in my copy of "The Silent Deep"

(For clarity, that's the HMS Warspite incident)
HMS Sceptre also had a close encounter with an iceberg (aka K-211) that required the use of the battleshort to sort the situation out.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 20:53
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Originally Posted by ChrisJ800 View Post
My last sailboat had downward sonar (depth gauge) and forward looking sonar for going into an anchorage. I assume these low current devices are not stealthy. I can understand a sub switching these off in time of war or when in foreign waters and wanting to be stealthy, but why not use them for the rest of the time? Obviously I am a pilot who can sail, but not a submariner! But is there a balance between safety and stealthiness?
I would imagine one reason is you would want your vessels operating in or near their wartime areas, thus if the poo did hit the fan and rapidly escalate literally in days, the boat would be where it was needed, not having to fast track there. Hence you wouldn’t want to announce your position.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 21:23
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Ordered on Kindle just now.
The Secret State was good - so looking forward to this.
Hennessy is brilliant, a historian of modern times, using modern language and a tinge of humour.
A very few days into the Chinese Plague he was interviewed by the Beeb. He said [I summarise badly] that history would be seen for many years as BC and AC ...... before Covid, and After it struck. He basically said this is the big one, the global consequences will be severe and are unknowable.

And here we are, 2 years in, with "crises" not just here but [ill-reported] just about everywhere: supply chains, shortages, civil disobedience, balances of power upset, .....

A brilliant man, the pre-eminent historian of modern Britain.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 21:35
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Originally Posted by goofer3 View Post
Knew I had this filed away somewhere. From October, 1968;

"..... the 20,000,000 nuclear submarine Warspite...." Looks like the creators of HMS Vigil must have learned from that.....

Jack
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 15:42
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Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
"..... the 20,000,000 nuclear submarine Warspite...." Looks like the creators of HMS Vigil must have learned from that.....

Jack
I think a '' is missing from the front of that number.

A lot of RN submarines hit 'ice' over the years. 'Ice' often had a Russian accent.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 15:54
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An interesting one of late
Two of the UKs most senior Royal Navy officers have strongly rejected the suggestion that a submarine could have sunk a fishing boat that went down off the Cornish coast 17 years ago with the loss of five lives.
Navy officers deny a submarine sank the fishing boat 17 years ago (msn.com)
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 17:06
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Funnily enough I was watching an old episode of Kavanaugh QC the other day and the story was about a trawler lost with her crew. The owner and other locals started a conspiracy theory that there had been a collision with a submarine, but he had sent a non seaworthy boat to sea and sabotaged her for the insurance money.. I was reminded of the tragic loss of the Fishing Vessel Pescado.

As for submarines in deep water, see - Why Billion Dollar Nuclear Submarines Still Run Into Things Underwater.
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 08:10
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In February this year a surfacing Japanese submarine in home waters hit the hull of a Chinese container ship right above.
Take your pick of the various news source interpretations from factual to derisory.
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=su...&client=safari
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