USN Aggressor Fleet Upgrade - F-5N+ & F-5F+

[RAFEngO74to09]

To be carried out on a total fleet of 40.

First Navy F-5 Aggressor Begins Upgrade That Will Make The Entire Fleet Far More Potent (thedrive.com)

[Foghorn Leghorn]

What a banger of a capability if they get an AESA in there as well.

[DuckDodgers]

It's good to see this going ahead bringing commonality to the F-5 community. When discussing Nemesis we must remember that it has only a single channel receiver and the limitations that come with this. Given the SWaP constraints of the F-5 along with cooling, I'd guess that the system is around 1,500W output power which, and this is total ballpark, gives a contact against a fighter size target (let's say F-15) at around 42nm. It is however better than the legacy APG-66 (A-4K, F-16A/B pre-MLU).

As for an AESA, that would be an interesting programme to work on given the power and cooling requirements! Personally, I don't see either the USN/USMC nor Tactical Air Support getting one in the next 2 years for this and other reasons. I also have an issue with the line about a cheap platform to operate; the data from the first round of CAF CAS for an all in cost per hour put the F-5 iro $16,740 versus an F1 from ATAC iro $12,259. This isn't surprising given the lowball Fallon award of $106,789,764 for 5 years and 2,500hrs per year.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Originally Posted by DuckDodgers

It's good to see this going ahead bringing commonality to the F-5 community. When discussing Nemesis we must remember that it has only a single channel receiver and the limitations that come with this. Given the SWaP constraints of the F-5 along with cooling, I'd guess that the system is around 1,500W output power which, and this is total ballpark, gives a contact against a fighter size target (let's say F-15) at around 42nm. It is however better than the legacy APG-66 (A-4K, F-16A/B pre-MLU).

As for an AESA, that would be an interesting programme to work on given the power and cooling requirements! Personally, I don't see either the USN/USMC nor Tactical Air Support getting one in the next 2 years for this and other reasons. I also have an issue with the line about a cheap platform to operate; the data from the first round of CAF CAS for an all in cost per hour put the F-5 iro $16,740 versus an F1 from ATAC iro $12,259. This isn't surprising given the lowball Fallon award of $106,789,764 for 5 years and 2,500hrs per year.

Agreed, DD, about the issues regarding figment of an AESA. I do think it will happen on the COCO platforms in a few years, I just don’t believe we will see it in the short term. The current US contracts have been awarded and that money has been invested already and Europe is yet to be fought over. My personal belief is that we will potential start seeing AESA becoming widespread in the next round of CAF CAS contracts. Certainly not in Europe initially, businesses will need to shore up any capabilities there before spending again.

[ORAC]

As for an AESA, that would be an interesting programme to work on given the power and cooling requirements!

Air cooled and, using GaN, should have the same detection range as those currently fitted into the F-15/F-18…..

https://www.raytheonintelligenceands...r-any-platform

EL SEGUNDO, Calif., (September 21, 2021) – Raytheon Intelligence & Space, a Raytheon Technologies business, introduced today an affordable, lightweight and compact Active Electronically Scanned Array, or AESA, radar. It harnesses the capability of a heavyweight AESA fire control radar in its lightest form factor ever – at a fraction of the cost.….

At just over 100 pounds, the new compact radar is a third of the weight of most modern AESA radars and costs about half as much as typical fire control radars. It combines the power of Gallium Nitride, or GaN, technology with an innovative packaging of its digital receiver/exciter and processor called CHIRP, and a unique air-cooled design to deliver Gen 4-plus performance.…..

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Air cooled and, using GaN, should have the same detection range as those currently fitted into the F-15/F-18…..

https://www.raytheonintelligenceands...r-any-platform

EL SEGUNDO, Calif., (September 21, 2021) – Raytheon Intelligence & Space, a Raytheon Technologies business, introduced today an affordable, lightweight and compact Active Electronically Scanned Array, or AESA, radar. It harnesses the capability of a heavyweight AESA fire control radar in its lightest form factor ever – at a fraction of the cost.….

At just over 100 pounds, the new compact radar is a third of the weight of most modern AESA radars and costs about half as much as typical fire control radars. It combines the power of Gallium Nitride, or GaN, technology with an innovative packaging of its digital receiver/exciter and processor called CHIRP, and a unique air-cooled design to deliver Gen 4-plus performance.…..

Thank you, ORAC. An interesting article indeed. Most of the mech ‘relatively’ modern mech scan radars in the smaller fighters are able to form tracks at circa 40nm, so this comes as no surprise that.

[DuckDodgers]

Define at a fraction of the cost (of what) as this is key? Seems aimed at a Loyal Wingman type capability (and other smaller platforms) who may have SWaP constraints. It's an interesting market segment for sure and one that will have much utility I suspect, if anything it provides options beyond the obvious in that segment.

[ORAC]

Define at a fraction of the cost

It’s defined in the article quoted - 50% of the cost….

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Originally Posted by DuckDodgers

Define at a fraction of the cost (of what) as this is key? Seems aimed at a Loyal Wingman type capability (and other smaller platforms) who may have SWaP constraints. It's an interesting market segment for sure and one that will have much utility I suspect, if anything it provides options beyond the obvious in that segment.

DD, I have to say that it’s not necessarily aimed at a loyal wingman capability. It’s more to do with threat replication which I won’t go into here.

[gums]

Salute!

Good news for the F-5 folks, and even without a cosmic AESA 'dar, the new equip will help.

For folks that have never faced the F-5E, the thing is very hard to pick up visually, but unless he gets off a good Lima or Slammer shot early, some of the later lites such as the Tiffie , Viper, Hornet and such will usually win if in a furball. It does not maintain energy as well as the 4G planes, and once real slow is a falling leaf. Only saw them for real and not a planned mission when at Red Flag, and if he didn't nail me on his intercept it was one or two defensive turns and the bandit booked!

I like the Viper as an aggressor, but the F-5 is lots cheaper to maintain for the mechanics.

Gums opiones...