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Military Aviation, War and the Internet

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Military Aviation, War and the Internet

Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:10
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Military Aviation, War and the Internet

In terms of secrecy and War the Internet is a bad thing. The enemy could, just by monitoring plane spotting sites, plot the course of inbound hostile aircraft.
You can't just turn the Internet off as it was designed to survive attempts at turning it off or destroying it.
So is there a military, government contingency in the event of War that deals with this problem?
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:24
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Any country depending on 'free-to-air' internet sites for their defence/early warning has much more to worry about than its data limit!

CG
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:24
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Instant reaction to that is Bottle/Genii/Cork Ö but FR24 etc. would hopefully be shut down by Government diktat at the first opportunity. And shoot spotters!

When we at Waddington launched n Vulcans to Ascension in total r/t silence, with a Sov AGI perched off-shore, there were additional Sy procedures in place Ö I will not elaborate further., but my Aldis lamp justified itís existence that day.

As to the nub of your question, COMSEC is the only possible option, aka STFU!

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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 17:59
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MPN11, if you think the bad guys donít monitor likely airfields for silent launches, Iím afraid youíre in cloud cuckoo land, an example:-

Years ago, I was guesting with the Norwegians around Kirkenes, close to the Russian border, the Soviets put out a ship from Murmansk which the Noggies were interested in. They decided to launch the sneaky beaky P3 which always operated in silence. Even as it was taxying, we heard the Russians tell the ship the P3 was launching, time to come home.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 18:54
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Fair point, although of course EGXW was nowhere near the Russian border! 😀

I have no doubt there are dedicated Ďlurkersí near our few remaining MOBs, making life easier for the opposition.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 19:07
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Originally Posted by munnst View Post
In terms of secrecy and War the Internet is a bad thing. The enemy could, just by monitoring plane spotting sites, plot the course of inbound hostile aircraft.
You can't just turn the Internet off as it was designed to survive attempts at turning it off or destroying it.
So is there a military, government contingency in the event of War that deals with this problem?
Turn your transponder off?
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 22:26
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No military aircraft I have ever flown has appeared on FlightRadar or equivalent. Heavies generally do whilst operating "routinely" with ADS-B or equivalent.
What others have said about HUMINT is exactly right though.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 23:38
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Originally Posted by LateArmLive View Post
No military aircraft I have ever flown has appeared on FlightRadar or equivalent. Heavies generally do whilst operating "routinely" with ADS-B or equivalent.
Anything squawking Mode S is being tracked by the avgeek network though multilateration (MLAT), it's just that the big commercial sites like FR24 filter out military MLAT-only tracks. If you go to the enthusiast-run ADSB Exchange you'll see Typhoons, F35s and F15s doing their thing, at least until they get far enough from civilisation that they can no longer be triangulated. Squawking 3/C only is a workaround, at potential detriment to ATC/C2 and to TCAS performance on any aircraft which may come into conflict.

Last edited by Easy Street; 22nd Aug 2021 at 23:49.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 00:40
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Says it all

CNN.com - Who was the pilot who spotted secret Bush flight? - Dec. 2, 2003
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 01:57
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Not to forget the blogger over the road from Osama's residence on line and detailing the events of the raid as it unfolded.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-live-blogger
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:06
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Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
Turn your transponder off?
You can't turn off the Mk1 eye ball.
I remember spotters tracking real time B52's as they flew from the UK to Iraq and Afghanistan. Okay, the Iraqies and Afghans are not likely to have the capability to do anything about that other than get out of dodge.
If you take the situation the Talliban are in at the moment. Having been handed an entire military solution to play with (reports of 45 Blackhawks, 2000 military vehicles, weapons etc) the Internet intel could be very useful.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 10:09
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Not to forget the blogger over the road from Osama's residence on line and detailing the events of the raid as it unfolded.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-live-blogger
Exactly. I can see major efforts to disrupt the Internet by cutting pipe lines. Cyber attacks or simply hijacked as a propaganda tool by the enemy.
We already see anti-vaxers, flat earthers, 9-11 deniers getting creedence due to the internet.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 11:05
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Originally Posted by Easy Street View Post
Anything squawking Mode S is being tracked by the avgeek network though multilateration (MLAT), it's just that the big commercial sites like FR24 filter out military MLAT-only tracks. If you go to the enthusiast-run ADSB Exchange you'll see Typhoons, F35s and F15s doing their thing, at least until they get far enough from civilisation that they can no longer be triangulated. Squawking 3/C only is a workaround, at potential detriment to ATC/C2 and to TCAS performance on any aircraft which may come into conflict.
And that's why my fleet never squawks ModeS. Mode 3/C for domestic phases of flight only (obviously not during a conflict - for the OP) then tactical modes only. You won't be seeing them on ADSB Exchange thankfully!
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 13:34
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From a recent article by The Economist (Print Edition of 7th August 2021, subscription required)

https://www.economist.com/leaders/20...e-intelligence

and free podcast (below)

AMATEURS, ACTIVISTS and academics are using technology and open-source data to uncover state secrets. Shashank Joshi, The Economistís defence editor, explores how open-source intelligence is disrupting statecraft and asks John Brennan, a former director of the CIA, how these techniques are being used alongside secret intelligence to detect missile silos in China.
https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2...ing-statecraft

JAS
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 14:57
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Open Source Intelligence

Really nothing new, a good primer on the subject is:

Spying on the Bomb by Jeffrey T. Michelson

You can than start to bring yourself up to date with:

We are Bellingcat by Eliot Higgins We are Bellingcat by Eliot Higgins

Before visiting the Bellingcat website http://www.bellingcat.co.uk

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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 20:58
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Remember the rugby scrum of news crews filming on the beach when the USMC, blinded by the camera lights, came ashore at Mogadishu in Somalia? 1993+-.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 10:19
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This was a major headache for the MoD during the Libyan campaign in 2011, when Tornado departures from Marham were being broadcast in real-time over Twitter and spotting sites. Wouldn't take a genius to work out when those same aircraft would be over their targets. Remember the MoD at the time 'requesting' that such movements not be broadcast live, and as far as I recall the request being largely respected.
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