US Forces dependent families overseas - when from?

[Easy Street]

Amidst the recriminations over the US decision to withdraw from Afghanistan, some are holding up West Germany, Japan and South Korea as examples of how US Forces stayed for decades and civil societies were successfully rebuilt. I think the comparison fails on its own terms as in none of those states was there a sustained armed insurgency facing either the host nation or US Forces. Some cross-border skirmishes in Korea, for sure, but those were a) inter-state and b) within the capacity of South Korean forces to handle. So the argument that an ongoing presence in Afghanistan should be considered analogous is simply wrong from the start.

I'm interested in developing another counter-argument, and the reason why I'm starting a new post is to avoid sidetracking the Afghanistan thread. Can any of our older Stateside contributors recall when dependents started accompanying US Forces in each of West Germany, Japan and South Korea, and how long it took for the bases to develop into the Americanised towns we see today? It obviously makes a great deal of difference to the long-term sustainability of deployments when they become enjoyable perks of a military career. (Let's not get into the question of whether lengthy unaccompanied deployments were, or are considered a perk! )

Ridiculous that such points should even need to be made, but there are some hysterical people around right now!

[Ninthace]

In my experience (Germany and the UK), integration between US Forces, their families and the community they live in tends to be fairly superficial even in 'friendly' communities, They very much retain their own culture down to the currency used on base and the shops and schooling for their children, building a mini USA. We sometimes used to go the the local US base after Happy Hour for a Pizza and a Baskin Robins. Just like going abroad! 4th July was good too.

[[email protected]]

They very much retain their own culture

they have a culture????????????

[kaitakbowler]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

they have a culture????????????

Only when they open a pot of yoghurt. Hat Coat please.

[GreenXCode]

Kulture

Whilst Nint… makes a valid point, there are differences across Germany, S Korea and Japan but I will focus on 4ATAF thru{ a Ramstein USAF and Stuttgart USA lens. There is enough evidence now of inter-community marriages (including same sex) where US PAX and national spouses have raised their own families now spanning two generations. It is not the presence of threat in a CT lens but the reality of living amongst the ‘natives.’ IVO Ramstein there are around 55 000 people who have lived together with about 10% ‘in front of the wire’ creating harmony. When they choose to (or have to because of the threat) live behind the wire then there is no ‘Kultural Exchange’ and they are an army of occupation as has been the case for every Mongul, British, Soviet and US intervention in Afghanistan. If we chose to ignore the lessons of history then we are destined to repeat them :-( Rear Adm Westbrook makes the case thru’ a different lens in the Times yesterday but nails it - in every intervention there is a difference between the exit strategy decided by the politicians who do not have bottomless pits of money, and end state that has never been articulated well since DESERT SHIELD/STORM that was known as the Generals’ war as they all had their @sses kicked in ‘nam when they were there. History will not be kind to us for our adventures in Iraq, (Yugoslavia - discuss), Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.

[Easy Street]

Thanks GreenXCode - I take 'two generations' to mean that intermarriage has been going on since the 1960s, is that right? Am interested also in when it was first allowed for families to come across from the US.

[ORAC]

Easy_Street,

In answer to your question - families started joining the occupying forces in 1946.

https://networks.h-net.org/node/3500...amily-occupied

[Easy Street]

Thanks ORAC. Reading the summary of that research, it sounds as if overseas family life was surprisingly stressful even into the 1990s!

Anyone have a similar source for Korea or Japan? Google is not being my friend, sadly.

[ORAC]

This seems apposite. Expensive to buy new, but you might find a cheap second hand copy online.

Unofficial Ambassadors: American Military Families Overseas and the Cold War, 1946–1965 by Donna Alvah