Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 15th Aug 2021, 17:21
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,359
Received 105 Likes on 47 Posts
Oooh Dear, this will be Biden’s legacy, helicopters evacuating an Embassy just like Vietnam, Trump stitched him up royally into this course of action knowing full well the public wouldn’t like a reversal and the US staying on.

Runway is serviceable LB.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 17:32
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
Posts: 2,619
Received 26 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Oooh Dear, this will be Biden’s legacy, helicopters evacuating an Embassy just like Vietnam, Trump stitched him up royally into this course of action knowing full well the public wouldn’t like a reversal and the US staying on.

Runway is serviceable LB.
Thank you.
We have idiot MPs saying we should have stayed, even when US leaves. What planet do they live on?
Have our "600 paras" pitched up yet? Mighty quiet on that score.
langleybaston is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 17:56
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,450
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Here in Canada Trudeau promised to accept up to 20,000 Afghan interpreters and other employees serving Canada along with their families.

Just how they will make it out of Afghanistan as the Taliban waltzes into Kabul today in one piece is a total mystery

Oh yes, they need unexpired passports - good luck getting the Taliban to issue fresh passports

​​​There's also a bunch of other documents required - good luck getting them from the Taliban.

​​​Then a digital form must be filled out in a collapsed state with intermittent electricity and internet.

Canada promised to accept White Helmets from Syria, but many are still stuck in refugee camps in Jordan for the last three years while Canadian bureaucracy is navel gazing
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 18:22
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dark Side of West Wales
Age: 83
Posts: 156
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LB Where else would you expect BJ to be but behind the curve? Time for a new leader I fear!

My thoughts are both with those that are stuck in Afghan and those that now have the task of getting them out.

Last edited by DODGYOLDFART; 15th Aug 2021 at 18:38.
DODGYOLDFART is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 18:46
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: England
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm reading a lot about the US, then the British abandoning Afghanistan but what of our Allies?
On LBC radio today a reporter stated that
"A senior British commander (name escapes me) had asked some of the other nations in Afghanistan to support the British with a view to staying put. None would support the UK. As Britian is no longer the power it once was standing alone was not a viable option.".
Doesn't look like anyone else wants to stay either. Seems all countries are seeing the US withdrawal as a way of getting out of what has become a long term situation.
munnst is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 19:03
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Oooh Dear, this will be Biden’s legacy, helicopters evacuating an Embassy just like Vietnam, Trump stitched him up royally into this course of action knowing full well the public wouldn’t like a reversal and the US staying on.
It won't be Biden's legacy, any more than Saigon is Ford's. Saigon was one factor among several that led to Ford losing the 1976 election, but when people think about Vietnam mistakes now it's LBJ and to an extent JFK that come to mind. No-one credibly argues that Nixon or Ford made the wrong strategic calls in scaling back and eventually withdrawing. Afghanistan will be part of the dismal Bush legacy.

Obama, Trump and Biden all spoke out against the war in their election campaigns. Obama's subsequent surge and the failure of State and Defense departments to plan properly for withdrawal, despite the April 2021 deadline, the Taliban's creeping gains throughout rural Afghanistan *and the very clear intent of three successive presidents* show clearly the undemocratic nature of US foreign policy. What is the point of trying to impose democracy abroad while consistently ignoring your own polity's wishes? The US intelligence, foreign policy and army* establishments have been shown to have been grievously wrong in their understanding of the situation and their advice on how to proceed. (The UK is equally guilty here, General Carter almost comically so in the Times last week, and Ben Wallace thrashing around trying to cobble together a coalition). Even as the Taliban approached Kabul these discredited lobbies were attempting to force a reversal by orchestrating criticism of Biden and Trump's decisions. Biden was right to call time, and I believe that once the undeniable shame of the botched withdrawal has receded, history will judge him kindly for practising (not imposing) democracy.

* Yes, I did say 'army'. A period of silence would be welcomed from a generation of generals, on both sides of the Atlantic, who exploited the conflict to secure primacy in inter-service battles for funding, senior appointments and political influence. If they understood the hopelessness of the task, they either lacked the moral courage to speak truth to power or were guilty of the deepest cynicism. If they didn't understand it, they were either hopelessly naive or weren't listening to their people. None of those possibilities reflect well on them. I also find it regrettable that we have veterans of the conflict chairing our parliamentary Foreign Affairs and Defence committees; their comments in recent days have shown more in the way of emotional investment than strategic perspective.

Last edited by Easy Street; 15th Aug 2021 at 20:25.
Easy Street is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 19:05
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerset
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
House of Commons Library - research briefing

Published Friday. Might be of interest.
"Withdrawal of military forces in Afghanistan and its implications for peace"
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9241/
​​​​​​
Watson1963 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 19:07
  #168 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,005
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts
Don't the regiment have Force Protection duty?
One assumes our relief aircraft must use the airport?
ORAC is online now  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 19:49
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Watson1963 View Post
Published Friday. Might be of interest.
"Withdrawal of military forces in Afghanistan and its implications for peace"
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9241/
​​​​​​
Simple quality control, the summary says:'Fresh intelligence assessments suggest that Kabul could fall in a month to 90 days.'
The document is dated Aug 13, Kabul is gone by Aug 15th, so even this emergency study was really clueless about how unfit the Afghan armed forces really are.
These apparently shared delusions among all the western powers who invested blood and treasure in this venture really need to be understood so they can be dispelled more effectively next time.
etudiant is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 20:02
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 4 Posts
The central failure of Western understanding was of Afghan society and power structures. Western establishments deluded themselves that they were creating security forces for a functioning government. The melting away of those security forces and the almost-unopposed transfers of power to the Taliban in carefully-staged meetings with each of the regional tribal chiefs now show conclusively that the government ceased to function some time ago: maybe when the US struck its deal with the Taliban, maybe earlier. Maybe it never functioned effectively at all. From the report linked by etudiant, and the credibility-destroying revelation from Ben Wallace that he was trying to get other countries to help the UK stay in Afghanistan, it seems we were deluding ourselves that it was still functioning just days ago.

Last edited by Easy Street; 15th Aug 2021 at 20:35.
Easy Street is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2021, 20:26
  #171 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,005
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts
Pentagon deploying additional troops to assist with their evacuation - total number of troops now 6000.

No information on helicopter deployments but they seem to have a lot of CH-47s and Blackhawks moving around and they will have to handle and turn a lot of AT in the next few days or weeks.

Saudi Arabia evacuating their embassy so obviously don’t think they will be considered to be in the Taliban good books.
ORAC is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:22
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 67
Posts: 3,801
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts

Something tells me the Taliban is not going to be kind to the LGBTI community...
tdracer is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:22
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ban Chiang,Thailand
Age: 66
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DODGYOLDFART View Post
LB Where else would you expect BJ to be but behind the curve? Time for a new leader I fear!

My thoughts are both with those that are stuck in Afghan and those that now have the task of getting them out.
But who to replace BJ?, who it has to be said is all wind and p*ss. Starmer?. Rees-Mogg?. It just gets worse.

Last edited by Thaihawk; 16th Aug 2021 at 00:26. Reason: Addition of question mark.
Thaihawk is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:36
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,242
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Apparently 800 pax onboard C-17 RCH 871 from Kabul.
Saigon all over again.
tartare is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:50
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,359
Received 105 Likes on 47 Posts
I do wonder if the Afghan Government squirrelled away their ahem… pension funds.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:27
  #176 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,005
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts


ORAC is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:01
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York
Posts: 558
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Never worked with helicopters whilst in the RAF so don’t know too much about them regarding range. Where will the ones flying in Kabul fly to, will they have to destroy some before they leave the airport?
dctyke is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:27
  #178 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,005
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts
They’ll take them home. Even the CH-47 easily fits into a C-17.
ORAC is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:36
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,185
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes on 7 Posts
ORAC

What strikes me the most about the first video you posted is how the people trying to board that aircraft seem to be almost exclusively young and healthy males.

You may infer what you wish from what I have said.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2021, 08:07
  #180 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,005
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes on 21 Posts
Apparently 800 pax onboard C-17 RCH 871 from Kabul.
Saigon all over again.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...go-jet-reports

800 People Evacuated From Kabul Aboard A Single C-17 Cargo Jet: Reports

….
A tanker bridge has also been created that is refueling heavily laden USAF transport flights as they move from Afghanistan to safer locales in the Middle East. The tankers could allow for the loaded transports to make tactical departures from Kabul with lower fuel loads than they would have to without aerial refueling support. There could be a major shortage of jet fuel at Kabul International, as well….



ORAC is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.