Afghanistan 2021 Onwards
Having travelled around Afghanistan (and other countries in the region) in the 70s and subsequently paid pretty close attention to it - I've got a small library on the subject - I'd like to think that not having been "shot at" isn't a bar to having an opinion here. I've seen my own judgements about likely outcomes confirmed often enough, starting with the appalling mis-judgements which led to support for the likes of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and the "foreign fighters" (aka Bin Laden's Saudi crew) at the inception of the insurgency against the Soviet occupation. I've heard and read enough appalling judgements uttered by those in command who have been shot at to not automatically endorse their opinions even though, in principle, I value their service. Ultimately the egregious faults of western engagement in the region originate with the political and administrative classes.
Long-term the only likely "solutions" to the problem of Afghanistan lie far in the future and require the decay of a primitive religion and, probably, the division of the country into some sort of regional federation of the various tribes. I'm not holding my breath on either count. Then there's Pakistan...
Long-term the only likely "solutions" to the problem of Afghanistan lie far in the future and require the decay of a primitive religion and, probably, the division of the country into some sort of regional federation of the various tribes. I'm not holding my breath on either count. Then there's Pakistan...
Salute!
Thank you, Skrid. And I wish to clarify....
When I use the term "shot at", it is also related to another expression "boots on the ground". and both expressions refer to folks that have actually been to the places we talk about, whether in peacetime or not.
My comrades that never served "in country", but flew from bases in Thailand did not see and feel what I did when at Bien Hoa and Pleiku. Nor did many ever fly with and help the Vee use the weapons of war we provided as I did.
The armchair warriors and experts that have never been "shot at" are far down my "respect" scale. And you do not truly understand the folks you are trying to help (or defeat) until you live, eat and breath with them for more than a few minutes at a cocktail party.
Gums sends...
Thank you, Skrid. And I wish to clarify....
When I use the term "shot at", it is also related to another expression "boots on the ground". and both expressions refer to folks that have actually been to the places we talk about, whether in peacetime or not.
My comrades that never served "in country", but flew from bases in Thailand did not see and feel what I did when at Bien Hoa and Pleiku. Nor did many ever fly with and help the Vee use the weapons of war we provided as I did.
The armchair warriors and experts that have never been "shot at" are far down my "respect" scale. And you do not truly understand the folks you are trying to help (or defeat) until you live, eat and breath with them for more than a few minutes at a cocktail party.
Gums sends...
The armchair warriors and experts that have never been "shot at" are far down my "respect" scale. And you do not truly understand the folks you are trying to help (or defeat) until you live, eat and breath with them for more than a few minutes at a cocktail party.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...id-taliban-row
Pakistan Airlines suspends Afghanistan flights amid Taliban row
Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has suspended flights to Kabul after what it called heavy-handed interference by Taliban authorities.
The suspension on Thursday took place as the Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August.
“Our flights frequently faced undue delays because of the unprofessional attitude of the Kabul aviation authorities,” Abdullah Hafeez Khan, the PIA spokesman told the AFP news agency. “The route will remain suspended until “the situation becomes conducive,” he added…..
Earlier, the Taliban warned PIA and Afghan carrier Kam Air that their Afghan operations risked being blocked unless they agreed to cut prices that have spiralled out of the reach of most Afghans.
With most airlines no longer flying to Afghanistan, tickets for flights to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, have been selling for as much as $2,500 on PIA, according to travel agents in Kabul, compared with $120-$150 before.
The Afghan transport ministry said in a statement that prices on the route should “be adjusted to correspond with the conditions of a ticket before the victory of the Islamic Emirate” or the flights would be stopped…..
PIA, which runs chartered flights to Kabul rather than regular commercial services, said it had maintained the flights on humanitarian grounds and paid more than $400,000 as insurance premium, “which could only be possible if 300 passengers are available”, Khan said.
PIA said that ever since the new Taliban government was formed, its staff in Kabul had faced last-minute changes in regulations and flight permissions and intimidating behaviour from Taliban commanders…..
It said its country representative had been held at gunpoint for hours in one incident and was only freed after the Pakistan embassy in Kabul intervened.
Pakistan Airlines suspends Afghanistan flights amid Taliban row
Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has suspended flights to Kabul after what it called heavy-handed interference by Taliban authorities.
The suspension on Thursday took place as the Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August.
“Our flights frequently faced undue delays because of the unprofessional attitude of the Kabul aviation authorities,” Abdullah Hafeez Khan, the PIA spokesman told the AFP news agency. “The route will remain suspended until “the situation becomes conducive,” he added…..
Earlier, the Taliban warned PIA and Afghan carrier Kam Air that their Afghan operations risked being blocked unless they agreed to cut prices that have spiralled out of the reach of most Afghans.
With most airlines no longer flying to Afghanistan, tickets for flights to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, have been selling for as much as $2,500 on PIA, according to travel agents in Kabul, compared with $120-$150 before.
The Afghan transport ministry said in a statement that prices on the route should “be adjusted to correspond with the conditions of a ticket before the victory of the Islamic Emirate” or the flights would be stopped…..
PIA, which runs chartered flights to Kabul rather than regular commercial services, said it had maintained the flights on humanitarian grounds and paid more than $400,000 as insurance premium, “which could only be possible if 300 passengers are available”, Khan said.
PIA said that ever since the new Taliban government was formed, its staff in Kabul had faced last-minute changes in regulations and flight permissions and intimidating behaviour from Taliban commanders…..
It said its country representative had been held at gunpoint for hours in one incident and was only freed after the Pakistan embassy in Kabul intervened.
Or perhaps the wiser heads think our very own are at risk and regret that any such exposure should come ahead of their safety.
Find a mirror, take a look and think very hard about what you should do next.
Find a mirror, take a look and think very hard about what you should do next.
"The Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August."
You know, I can see their point...............
You know, I can see their point...............
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Surprised no mention on here that the RAF are back evacuating people
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uations-resume
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uations-resume
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"The Taliban government ordered the airline, the only international carrier operating regularly out of the Afghan capital, to cut ticket prices to the levels of before the fall of the Western-backed Afghan government in August."
You know, I can see their point...............
You know, I can see their point...............
You would have thought the Taliban would have subsidised the difference until market forces as in insurance premiums etc settle back down. But it seems they do not understand no one will fly routes at a loss for their benefit.
Salute!
ahem, Nut.....
"You would have thought the Taliban would have subsidised the difference until market forces..."
Beam me up! The last thing those religious zealots think about are "market forces" or most anything else except their view of a society that 99% of the rest of the world do not share. When another national airline has problems in the 'stan, there are economic and other considerations the Taliban do not value, and prolly won't for a long time.
Maybe we should have discussions over on the main forum if there are any members flying commercial planes into Kabul or Bagram or...
Gums sends...
ahem, Nut.....
"You would have thought the Taliban would have subsidised the difference until market forces..."
Beam me up! The last thing those religious zealots think about are "market forces" or most anything else except their view of a society that 99% of the rest of the world do not share. When another national airline has problems in the 'stan, there are economic and other considerations the Taliban do not value, and prolly won't for a long time.
Maybe we should have discussions over on the main forum if there are any members flying commercial planes into Kabul or Bagram or...
Gums sends...
Salute!
Great point, Ninth.....
We have a very "diverse" grope here in FLorida. We are ironic, bionic, sarconic, geriatric and many of us have touched the elephant or flown into the jaws of the doom pussy. Some have not returned. Look up the Khobar Tower truck bomb where we lost 19 of our neighbors here in the Eglin/Hurlburt complex.
Gums sends...
Great point, Ninth.....
We have a very "diverse" grope here in FLorida. We are ironic, bionic, sarconic, geriatric and many of us have touched the elephant or flown into the jaws of the doom pussy. Some have not returned. Look up the Khobar Tower truck bomb where we lost 19 of our neighbors here in the Eglin/Hurlburt complex.
Gums sends...
When serving in the Canadian Military I was at a reception for high level government people in 2008 . A senior Mandarin at Foreign Affairs was standing next to a very senior Canadian Military Officer. I asked both of them to make the linkage between the Canadian Armed Forces deployment to Afghanistan and the national security interests of Canada.
The response, unsurprisingly but very disappointing, was a master class in desembling with no clear answer to what should have been a very straight forward question
I am also old enough to be one of the last officers in the CAF to have a commissioning scroll signed by a Defence Minister who had medals awarded for service where Combat operations were taking place.
The response, unsurprisingly but very disappointing, was a master class in desembling with no clear answer to what should have been a very straight forward question
I am also old enough to be one of the last officers in the CAF to have a commissioning scroll signed by a Defence Minister who had medals awarded for service where Combat operations were taking place.
I see the EU is to pump 1 BILLION Euros in aid into Afghanistan. The US a furthur $64 million, all laudable efforts, don't get me wrong, but how can a country develop to a place where it can stand on its own two feet free from outside help, why would a country have an incentive to throw off killing each other and using more and more sophisticated weaponary if you keep pumping monies into the place and corruption is rife, as in life at some point you need to withdraw the teat and let the young fend for themselves no matter how hard that may be.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/13/...l-crisis-group
https://www.usaid.gov/news-informati...ce-afghanistan
and some of the waste so far, frightning reading..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...use/ar-AAPejgg
https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/13/...l-crisis-group
https://www.usaid.gov/news-informati...ce-afghanistan
and some of the waste so far, frightning reading..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...use/ar-AAPejgg
Salute!
to Nuts and others about trying to help the 'stan.....
check out this op ed and it will explain a lot. Sure, some political jabs that could have been omitted, but the basics are there. It is one big reason an analogy with the Saigon evacuation does not compute. And my squad covered the evac in 1975, and I worked with the VNAF for three years, understood their culture and such.
The ''stan has never existed as a country except western folks drew some lines on a map. I also had two Afghan students when an instructor at Air University. Oh yeah, the first Pakistan and Israeli folks to check out in the Viper. Just some background...
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/202...el-greenfield/
Gums sends...
to Nuts and others about trying to help the 'stan.....
check out this op ed and it will explain a lot. Sure, some political jabs that could have been omitted, but the basics are there. It is one big reason an analogy with the Saigon evacuation does not compute. And my squad covered the evac in 1975, and I worked with the VNAF for three years, understood their culture and such.
The ''stan has never existed as a country except western folks drew some lines on a map. I also had two Afghan students when an instructor at Air University. Oh yeah, the first Pakistan and Israeli folks to check out in the Viper. Just some background...
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/202...el-greenfield/
Gums sends...
I for one would be more comfortable if a proviso was in place that women were allowed to work and get an education etc, before funding was available to them and it being in increments throughout the year with checks being carried out that these things were being adhered too. That way some progress might happen.
Pie in the sky I know, but better than nothing.
Pie in the sky I know, but better than nothing.
Last edited by NutLoose; 18th Oct 2021 at 14:43.
Salute!
Not sure who the "we" or the "they" are.....
Mao had a good explanation of the guerrilla tactics in his Little Red Book, and Uncle Ho's folks did a good job versus the French about 6 years later. Another five years go by, and this dude in Cuba pulls off a coup.
As the op ed piece I posted earlier points out, the 'stan is an arbitrary group of lines on a map. I must admit that most humans within those lines have much in common as far as physical appearance and genetic attributes, but about the only unifying thing there is a certain religion, and even it has two strong different sects.
There is no "common" foe nor desire to form a union as we saw here in the colonies except one...
The villages and families just want to be left alone.
But unlike we colonists, mostly from Europe, the Taliban would wish to impose a heinous social existence on all of them in the name of he who cannot be mentioned. One of our fundamental tennants was that the government or anyone else should not force religious practices upon the whole of the populace. After all, many of us migrated here to escape religious persecution. So no establishment of a national religion has been a biggie in the U.S. since 1787.
Gums sends...
Not sure who the "we" or the "they" are.....
Mao had a good explanation of the guerrilla tactics in his Little Red Book, and Uncle Ho's folks did a good job versus the French about 6 years later. Another five years go by, and this dude in Cuba pulls off a coup.
As the op ed piece I posted earlier points out, the 'stan is an arbitrary group of lines on a map. I must admit that most humans within those lines have much in common as far as physical appearance and genetic attributes, but about the only unifying thing there is a certain religion, and even it has two strong different sects.
There is no "common" foe nor desire to form a union as we saw here in the colonies except one...
The villages and families just want to be left alone.
But unlike we colonists, mostly from Europe, the Taliban would wish to impose a heinous social existence on all of them in the name of he who cannot be mentioned. One of our fundamental tennants was that the government or anyone else should not force religious practices upon the whole of the populace. After all, many of us migrated here to escape religious persecution. So no establishment of a national religion has been a biggie in the U.S. since 1787.
Gums sends...
Last edited by gums; 21st Oct 2021 at 21:42. Reason: addition
