Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Tristars the continuing saga

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Tristars the continuing saga

Old 15th Apr 2021, 14:27
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 23,403
Tristars the continuing saga

Details of the court case to get them removed from Bruntingthorpe, It does not look good for them

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2021/88.html

One interesting point

During the calendar year 2019 Mr Steven made a number of visits to the Aerodrome with the US Navy in pursuance of the US Navy Contract. Mr Walton was fully aware of this and at no stage did he mention to Mr Steven that the Tristars had to be removed from the Aerodrome by the Fifth Defendant by any particular date. According to Mr Steven, the Sixth Defendant purchased the Tristars as an investment opportunity, not as scrap. Three of them were to be restored to service as mid-air refuellers, to provide additional “probe and drogue” aerial refuelling capacity to the US Navy and Marine Corps tactical aviation and for many NATO/allied aircraft which use this type of refuelling system.

In relation to the Assignment, the FAA register is publicly accessible, and Tristar Air submitted that the Claimants could at any time have checked that register to ascertain ownership. It was always the intention of Tristar Air to renovate three of the Tristars with the remaining three being cannibalised for spare parts. The time estimated to return the Tristars to service is six months.

In June 2018 Tristar Air placed a bid for a contract with the US Navy (the “US Navy Contract”) which was announced as being successful on 18 April 2019 and plans for the refurbishment began. However, after a legal challenge, the award of the contract was terminated on 7 August 2019, Tristar Air being told of this only on 7 November 2019. Tristar resubmitted their bid on 20 July 2020, however Mr Ghaffar informed me of recent developments, namely that the resubmitted bid was disqualified because one of their sub‑contractors submitted their documents one hour after the deadline. Their protest against disqualification was denied on 11 December 2020, but Tristar intends to appeal against that denial, the US Navy Contract having not yet been awarded.


NutLoose is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 16:08
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 4,427
"the award of the contract was terminated on 7 August 2019, Tristar Air being told of this only on 7 November 2019."

What??? they weren't on the phone every day checking with the US??
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 21:02
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 390
Nutlosse. Mr Spoors never did proper storage checks on those beasts.. I am an LAE so do not filibuster bull on me as I will call your bluff. They are dead unless Gary throws dosh into them. He never has.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 21:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Age: 66
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
I am an LAE so do not filibuster bull on me as I will call your bluff.
What is a filibuster bull? Is it an engineering term? (Genuine question, I have not come across this expression before and wish to understand.)
Fortissimo is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 21:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Yorkshire....God's Country
Age: 57
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by Fortissimo View Post
What is a filibuster bull? Is it an engineering term? (Genuine question, I have not come across this expression before and wish to understand.)
I always thought it was a political term.........oh well, every day's a school day.
mopardave is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 22:40
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by mopardave View Post
I always thought it was a political term.........oh well, every day's a school day.
Those Tristars are politics, not engineering. Have they been under proper storage checks? That involves inhibiting engines or running them. Neither? There is your answer. I know too many people that worked with the owner of them. I would not work for him. I am a licenced aircraft engineer. Are most questioning my views drivers?
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 22:44
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 23,403
Don’t forget I’m an LAE too. totally agree, I bet they had few if any anti det runs on them either. I am simply posting the findings. Totally the wrong place to store them too, they should have gone out to the desert to have any chance of a second life, I remember the VC10s at Abingdon and the shocking state of those after “storage”
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 07:01
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Yorkshire....God's Country
Age: 57
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Those Tristars are politics, not engineering. Have they been under proper storage checks? That involves inhibiting engines or running them. Neither? There is your answer. I know too many people that worked with the owner of them. I would not work for him. I am a licenced aircraft engineer. Are most questioning my views drivers?
Ha ha......no mate.........I wish I was/had been! Just didn't get the use of the word in that context. But no matter. It seemed like a great idea but somewhat flawed.........shame. I think the word "storage" can mean all sorts. Did anyone actually think they might fly again.......hence the somewhat casual approach to "storage". Thanks to Nutty for appraising us of the situation.
mopardave is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 13:21
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,500
Have posts been deleted? That seemed to escalate quickly.
Davef68 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 13:52
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 55
Posts: 5,238
I saw the maiden flight of the first conversion by Marshall's in 1985, when doing my Flying Scholarship with them.
212man is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 16:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,129
Quite how anyone could have thought that those ex-RAF TriStars would ever fly again, yet alone as 3-point tankers given that they'd never done so before, is frankly astonishing.

As for Marshall and the TriStar? Remember the ZD949 scandal:

October 2006 - Marshall Aerospace is awarded a £22M contract to upgrade the RAF TriStars' avionics and FMS including a 'glass cockpit' as the 'MMR upgrade'. This should have been a relatively low-risk programme as it used elements of the C-130 cockpit upgrade already underway for the RNAF.

November 2007 - ZD949 arrives at Cambridge for the trial installation with a planned completion date of Q3 2008 at which time the second TriStar would begin conversion.

2008 came and went.

2009 came and went.

January 2010 - ZD949 finally makes its first flight with the MMR upgrade.

October 2010 - SDSR indicates that the TriStar will start to leave RAF service in 2013; TriStar MMR programme is to be discontinued.

December 2010 - After 100 hours of flight test, ZD949 finally passes MoD review and is due to be back in service in Spring 2011.

2011 - Due to the change in out-of-service date now planned for the TriStar and with the A330MRTT due in service by the end of the year, ZD949 remains at Cambridge in a pristine state under 'storage' and is to be 'reduced to spares' - a euphemism for being scrapped - as it would be too expensive to convert it back to its original state.

October 2011 - A330MRTT now 'Voyager' fails to meet release to service date; now expected to be 'sometime in January 2012'.

January 2012 - Voyager still not in service.

February 2012 - Voyager still not in service.

March 2013 - Voyager still not providing an AAR service; 3 x VC10 have to stagger on until Sep 2013.

September 2013 - VC10 retired, but Voyager still not providing a complete AAR service.

March 2014 - TriStar retired, but Voyager still not providing a complete AAR service.

May 2014 - ZD949 finally scrapped having never been returned to RAF service during a wasteful, expensive 7 year programme.
BEagle is online now  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 07:40
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The 24th & a Half Century
Posts: 266
ZERO surprises in any of this beside how many got fooled by this entire debacle. The ongoing case brought against Tristar Air LLC and Tempus Applied Solutions LLC by AGD (link below) suggests you really have to question due diligence across the board, it was non viable from day one. What a gross misuse of NAVAIR's time and resource, let us hope USTRANSCOM and AMC don't fall into a similar situation. It will be interesting to see if Strategic Airborne Operations JV LLC can deliver the U.S. Navy High Endurance Electronic Warfare Jet (HEEWJ) contract, they've survived one post award challenge but given the requirements and the price it's going to be interesting!

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cas...:2020-bk-18695
DuckDodgers is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2022, 07:19
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 4DME
Posts: 2,406
Couldn't find any search results as to what if anything has happened to the Tristars.
N707ZS is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2022, 07:28
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 2,205
There are some photos from the end of December and a few days ago in this thread: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=86861
In short: ZD951 is on the scrapping pan slowly being stripped of various parts (at least that's my interpretation).
Jhieminga is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2022, 11:23
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,500
Originally Posted by Jhieminga View Post
There are some photos from the end of December and a few days ago in this thread: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=86861
In short: ZD951 is on the scrapping pan slowly being stripped of various parts (at least that's my interpretation).
Nice green gunk!
Davef68 is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2022, 14:29
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 4DME
Posts: 2,406
Yes looks like an end to an expensive episode.
N707ZS is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2022, 20:40
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 23,403
What a waste, wrong place for storage, the inevitable result. I watched a 767 at EGNX that had overhauled engines fitted and had been overhauled deteriorate out on a pan, it only did one or two trips and was sadly broken up where she stood eventually.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2022, 11:51
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Uranus
Posts: 338
By coincidence I flew over Bruntingthorpe a fortnight ago and had a good look at the Tristars - they are a total mess as in from 1500' they were covered all over in that green gunk. They also appeared to all be missing the inboard aileron (flaperon?) over the engines.
Shaft109 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2022, 12:05
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 23,403
These were them back in the end of August 2018, they didnt look to bad, a wash would have got rid of the green slime on the latest pictures.







NutLoose is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2022, 12:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
These were them back in the end of August 2018, they didnt look to bad, a wash would have got rid of the green slime on the latest pictures.
To what purpose? They’re old, obsolete and useless. It’s surely a good thing that they’ll now be recycled to make something of use.
Video Mixdown is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.