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JP233

Old 11th Jun 2021, 23:04
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Here and there
Age: 38
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Never heard of any nighttime strafe before

But surely you would expect to be blinded by the gun!
I canít speak for 1991, but night strafe is practiced regularly - although now youíd use the pod (and HUD cues) for aiming. Iíve only ever strafed from the GR4 with a single gun vice the two of the GR1, but it was so far under the nose it wasnít an issue (plus we werenít using tracer).
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 13:20
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 2,022
GR1, both guns, fast rate with tracer in the haribo mix was no drama at night.

To put that into context, whilst we doing that with the first 'coloured' NVG-modified cockpit against a single target at Deci, the A-10 dudes were doing up to 4 targets with zero NVG mods, a basic HUD and with cylumes pointing from knees or wrists to view the steam gauges and the library of CAS paperwork. Balls of steel.
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Old 12th Jun 2021, 23:08
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
GR1, both guns, fast rate with tracer in the haribo mix was no drama at night.

To put that into context, whilst we doing that with the first 'coloured' NVG-modified cockpit against a single target at Deci, the A-10 dudes were doing up to 4 targets with zero NVG mods, a basic HUD and with cylumes pointing from knees or wrists to view the steam gauges and the library of CAS paperwork. Balls of steel.
Met Wam, concur.
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Old 13th Jun 2021, 08:58
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post

That was a bast**** to repair and required some lateral thinking outside of the box of stuff we had.
Just read the description of the mission in John's book. I had heard of it from the SEngO of 31 at the time and from one of the pilots from the second part of the package. At the time we started repairing ZD843, we were told it was damage from a SAM. Later on, we got to hear it was caused by air burst fuzed weapons arming directly on release. After we had finished the repairs and "DH" was back on the ramp as an active asset, an Armament Engineering Officer came in with a drawing and asked if 40 "Z" shaped brackets could be knocked up for an emergency mod for certain weapons. Made a batch up that early morning. The part of bomb casing that caused that damage, I picked out of the cockpit. After chopping through the gun bay door, the gun barrel support mounting foot (that did take most of the kinetic energy out of the fragment) and the cockpit floor, a small cable support bracket, that was cracked took the last brunt of the fragments velocity. Aircraft was released as CAT 3 (Fly) with multiple ADF's for repairs and one Lim for the LH Gun not to be used. Did several more missions before a failure of the canopy hinge structure (not war related) saw her being swapped out. Was on the ground at Bruggen for a long time afterwards with the resultant peace time repairs. ZD843 did take part in other operations until being RTPed in the mid 2010s, the circular patch on left side of the fin being the only indication of the damage caused to her that night that remained.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 13th Jun 2021 at 09:25.
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Old 13th Jun 2021, 19:57
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Great yarmouth, Norfolk UK
Age: 69
Posts: 485
I'm part way through the book, John.
A very impressive tome thus far, with more than a little dust in the air at times.
Greatest respect to all who flew and fixed the jet in GW 1, and all the events thereafter.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 07:18
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: sussex
Posts: 1,704
Very impressive BDR by the technicians and great thinking 'outside the box'. Begs the question how would the modern 'plastic' a/c fare in similar circumstances ? Genuine enquiry from an ex 'techie' but not airframes.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 07:46
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London,UK
Posts: 118
Thanks for that info about the BDR Cat, really interesting. It really was an incredible feat of aviation that Stew Gillies & Pete Rochelle managed to get that jet home. In different times, I think it would almost certainly have attracted an award.
& thanks for the comments Bobward - very much appreciated.


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Old 14th Jun 2021, 14:56
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by ancientaviator62 View Post
Very impressive BDR by the technicians and great thinking 'outside the box'. Begs the question how would the modern 'plastic' a/c fare in similar circumstances ? Genuine enquiry from an ex 'techie' but not airframes.
Replace plastic with metal was the first gen stuff for the GR5s etc. Not sure about modern Expedent Repair as composite patches could be as quick to "attach" as metal ones were. My problem was the rivets used on the repair on the nose of ZD843 were the only ones we had on the kit. Nobody had thought about internal damage such as a machinced pocket floor on the side of a Tornado. Saved by BAE having a structures bay at Dhahran and a wide choice of countersunk Cherrymax rivets. There were two BDR teams out at Dhahran. The 431 MU boys from Bruggen and us from Abingdon and pressed men from other units. Most of the RSS boys didn't have Tonka Qs. So it was decided we would do the repairs and the 431 guys would do the mass of component changes. Repairs carried out to fwd nose, LH cockpit floor, LH cannon mount foot, LH gun door, LH Wing, access panel on LH wing, hole in fin fuel tank and hole in fin fuel vent triangluar panel. 28 system wiring inline repairs. Items replaced included both RB199s, both sets of engine doors, both tailerons, LH Wing Spoiler and LH Wing Flaps. Any damaged LRU in areas mentioned were also replaced. I think it was 8 days of work 24/7 including the customary 10 pm SCUD attack. Whole story is here. Book plug time. https://grubstreet.co.uk/product/groundcrew-boys/

Spelling was as bad then as it is now.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 14th Jun 2021 at 16:23.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 18:27
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187

The Cat didn't survive SEngO's edict that only a purple heart was allowed to be added as art.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 08:17
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: sussex
Posts: 1,704
CT,
thanks for the link to the book. It is on the wish list.About time the groundcrew got a shout. When I was on 92 a rigger mate taught me to rivet, with pop (?) rivets. I became quite good but was painfully slow much to his amusement. Still it came in useful later when restoring a classic car. So I can fully appreciate the skill you and your mates so clearly demonstrated.
Shame on the SEngo , every artist is entitled to sign their work.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 16:40
  #51 (permalink)  
MG
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Just read the description of the mission in John's book. I had heard of it from the SEngO of 31 at the time and from one of the pilots from the second part of the package. At the time we started repairing ZD843, we were told it was damage from a SAM. Later on, we got to hear it was caused by air burst fuzed weapons arming directly on release. After we had finished the repairs and "DH" was back on the ramp as an active asset, an Armament Engineering Officer came in with a drawing and asked if 40 "Z" shaped brackets could be knocked up for an emergency mod for certain weapons. Made a batch up that early morning. The part of bomb casing that caused that damage, I picked out of the cockpit. After chopping through the gun bay door, the gun barrel support mounting foot (that did take most of the kinetic energy out of the fragment) and the cockpit floor, a small cable support bracket, that was cracked took the last brunt of the fragments velocity. Aircraft was released as CAT 3 (Fly) with multiple ADF's for repairs and one Lim for the LH Gun not to be used. Did several more missions before a failure of the canopy hinge structure (not war related) saw her being swapped out. Was on the ground at Bruggen for a long time afterwards with the resultant peace time repairs. ZD843 did take part in other operations until being RTPed in the mid 2010s, the circular patch on left side of the fin being the only indication of the damage caused to her that night that remained.
yep, escorted that back to Dharhan from the target that night, after seeing Budgie and Bob Ankerson go down.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 17:36
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by MG View Post
yep, escorted that back to Dharhan from the target that night, after seeing Budgie and Bob Ankerson go down.
Would be interested to know anyone that flew "DH" as a war goer afterwards. I did see it go off on its first mission post repair with Baldrick, one of the other riggers on our repair team. Alas lost the negatives of it's see off. I know an uncle of my old Jag unit was in your part of the package (being the guy that got me in touch with SEngO for the raid info for my story). Rumours I heard that it flew like a pig as one of the taileron spigots wasn't as straight as it should have been. Les had asked if peace time repairs could be carried out. The lead Riggers on both repair teams had said it would be months if cat 3 standard level of repair was attempted. Bernies insert repair on the nose was the closest example to a peace time standard repair. All repairs passed the remit of restoring structural strengh.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 15th Jun 2021 at 18:27.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 18:32
  #53 (permalink)  
MG
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Would be interested to know anyone that flew "DH" as a war goer afterwards. I did see it go off on its first mission post repair with Baldrick, one of the other riggers on our repair team. Alas lost the negatives of it's see off. I know an uncle of my old Jag unit was in your part of the package (being the guy that got me in touch with SEngO for the raid info for my story). Rumours I heard that it flew like a pig as one of the taileron spigots wasn't as straight as it should have been. Les had asked if peace time repairs could be carried out. The lead Riggers on both repair teams had said it would be months if cat 3 standard level of repair was attempted. Bernies insert repair on the nose was the closest example to a peace time standard repair. All repairs passed the remit of restoring structural strengh.
Sorry, didn’t fly it again until Dec 91, and then quite a lot in Jan 92. From what I recall, it got a good reputation as being a bag of spanners.
But you guys did a sterling job in getting it back on line considering the damage it received.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 18:52
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by MG View Post
Sorry, didn’t fly it again until Dec 91, and then quite a lot in Jan 92. From what I recall, it got a good reputation as being a bag of spanners.
But you guys did a sterling job in getting it back on line considering the damage it received.
Les said it was the first Tornado to use JP233. His diary and camera shots filled my story. Just wish I had known my photos were at my mothers house!

The Tornado with the Purple Heart. The UK ABDR lads waiting to go into work at Dhahran for the first time in the afternoon after the raid. We didn't know we had trade. Had got off the Herc from Rhyaid the evening before. I knew the famous 31 Rigger "Charlie" Brown from my days in Germany. He was waiting for others off the Herc. "Charlie, why the **** are you dressed like Rambo?!"


Last edited by Cat Techie; 15th Jun 2021 at 21:18.
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