RAF Reserve Pilot Info?
Avoid imitations
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The RAF is short of experienced pilots and very much wishes to attract back in some of those already retired. I asked about the terms and was told I would be very welcome back because of my qualifications and experience (and was asked "when can you start?").
As far as I am concerned, I already earned my pension and have been in receipt of it for some time. To remove any part of it from my sticky mitt which would put me on a lower income than I earn now just isn't going to happen.
Time doesn't stand still for anyone having left the RAF or any part of the military. People do go on to other things; in my case I have more flying quals and a lot more experience than when I left the Service. I also have more family financial responsibilities than a few years ago.
Myself and many others just aren't going to give up our civvy quals to go back onto a lower salary because we just can't afford to.
The hierarchy must still have their heads where the sun don't shine over this. A civvy I will stay.
As far as I am concerned, I already earned my pension and have been in receipt of it for some time. To remove any part of it from my sticky mitt which would put me on a lower income than I earn now just isn't going to happen.
Time doesn't stand still for anyone having left the RAF or any part of the military. People do go on to other things; in my case I have more flying quals and a lot more experience than when I left the Service. I also have more family financial responsibilities than a few years ago.
Myself and many others just aren't going to give up our civvy quals to go back onto a lower salary because we just can't afford to.
The hierarchy must still have their heads where the sun don't shine over this. A civvy I will stay.
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BW, consolidated pay is considered pensionable. Usually this is your basic salary. Non-consolidated is pay that does not attract a pension such as flying pay and other allowances.
For example, let's say your pension after 16 years is 25% of your final salary based on consolidated pay, you get 25% of your basic pay and not other non-consolidated allowances that you received as part of your overall take-home.
FTRS is non-consolidated pay. If you have done 16 years and qualify for a mil pension and decide to resign your reg commission and jump into FTRS the pay you receive as a reservist is not pensionable and will not count towards pension increments.
I'm not a pension expert, so the details are a bit sketchy, but I am sure that FTRS pay doesn't count to any pension rights, hence it being non-consolidated.
For example, let's say your pension after 16 years is 25% of your final salary based on consolidated pay, you get 25% of your basic pay and not other non-consolidated allowances that you received as part of your overall take-home.
FTRS is non-consolidated pay. If you have done 16 years and qualify for a mil pension and decide to resign your reg commission and jump into FTRS the pay you receive as a reservist is not pensionable and will not count towards pension increments.
I'm not a pension expert, so the details are a bit sketchy, but I am sure that FTRS pay doesn't count to any pension rights, hence it being non-consolidated.
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So you basically get paid as you did before but made up of - Your RAF Pension+FTRS (non pensionable)+Flying Pay (non-pensionable) so the net result is a loss due to no increase in pension when you retire and having to set aside money for a private pension. Nice one MoD!
Dan I'm just trying to cover all avenues at the moment and hopefully this one won't be player in the end. The training route is a non-starter with an "as, or with co-pilot" restriction as I wasn't a multi QFI.
Dan I'm just trying to cover all avenues at the moment and hopefully this one won't be player in the end. The training route is a non-starter with an "as, or with co-pilot" restriction as I wasn't a multi QFI.
I'm with you on that one ST. I applied for FTRS (in a post 9/11 depression) and was offered a job, but not the one I applied for. I refused for exactly the reasons you outlined. There's no scope for improvement once in the job. Unless they change the terms of service they will only get 55 year olds. But perhaps that's all they want.
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Broken Wings,
Have a look at www.rafcom.co.uk which has info on pay and allowances - it may help you; I say may as I haven't trawled through it all.
I don't know your financial situation, but it could come down to a harsh choice of salary minus pension being more than pension plus dole!
And if you do go down the FTRS route, you can always sue the MOD later to get the dosh back - there have been a couple of cases in the press lately, the details of which escape me, where the MOD have been forced to pay up having been caught shortchanging pensioners.
Have a look at www.rafcom.co.uk which has info on pay and allowances - it may help you; I say may as I haven't trawled through it all.
I don't know your financial situation, but it could come down to a harsh choice of salary minus pension being more than pension plus dole!
And if you do go down the FTRS route, you can always sue the MOD later to get the dosh back - there have been a couple of cases in the press lately, the details of which escape me, where the MOD have been forced to pay up having been caught shortchanging pensioners.
Avoid imitations
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Ticketyboo,
It's a sad state of affairs when the previously glorious RAF is only one step up from the dole
The administrators of these reserve schemes need to wake up to the real world. If they want the correct people, they've got to pay the correct money.
I was also approached a few years back to be asked if I would become a High Readiness Reserve Pilot, which I think was the predecessor of the current system. Again, having looked at the terms offered, my employer of the time was expected to hold open my job while I disappeared for training and operations. No employer in his right mind would or could do that. I declined the offer, because had I taken it up I would have been on the dole shortly afterwards (I was working abroad anyway). One later employer I worked for allowed pilots to be members of the scheme ONLY if ALL time away for training etc was taken as leave. Anyone with a wife or family need not apply!
It's a sad state of affairs when the previously glorious RAF is only one step up from the dole
The administrators of these reserve schemes need to wake up to the real world. If they want the correct people, they've got to pay the correct money.
I was also approached a few years back to be asked if I would become a High Readiness Reserve Pilot, which I think was the predecessor of the current system. Again, having looked at the terms offered, my employer of the time was expected to hold open my job while I disappeared for training and operations. No employer in his right mind would or could do that. I declined the offer, because had I taken it up I would have been on the dole shortly afterwards (I was working abroad anyway). One later employer I worked for allowed pilots to be members of the scheme ONLY if ALL time away for training etc was taken as leave. Anyone with a wife or family need not apply!
Gentleman Aviator
Broken Wings
Not sure of the exact details, but FTRS servive DOES add to already achieved pension rights - again from reliable source referred to earlier. But it may be the Full-Time bit that makes it count.
Don't ENTIRELY understand Shy Torque's point; no-ones being conscripted, if you don't like the terms then you don't join! I certainly know of a number of very happy FTRS pilots (and other aircrew) in the RW and FJ world [wouldn't admit to knowing truckies anyway ... ]
So you takes yer choice and gets paid yer money - if you like it, do it; if you don't, don't. What's the prob?
Not sure of the exact details, but FTRS servive DOES add to already achieved pension rights - again from reliable source referred to earlier. But it may be the Full-Time bit that makes it count.
Don't ENTIRELY understand Shy Torque's point; no-ones being conscripted, if you don't like the terms then you don't join! I certainly know of a number of very happy FTRS pilots (and other aircrew) in the RW and FJ world [wouldn't admit to knowing truckies anyway ...
]So you takes yer choice and gets paid yer money - if you like it, do it; if you don't, don't. What's the prob?
Avoid imitations
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TH,
My point is simply that the terms aren't favourable enough to draw back in any great numbers the more experienced people that the Service admits it now needs, to a critical degree in some areas.
The reason is this: It cannot be seen that there is a disparity in rewards, seen to disadvantage those already serving.
But I earned my pension, the contributions came out of my salary. I'm certainly not prepared to give it up to avoid upsetting a perceived applecart. The Service actually does take away the pension of people like myself, for the "privilege" of re-joining. Call it abatement if you like but it's taken away. It would be OK if it was re-invested for the individual, but it's not, it's just taken. It really is a case of "you play ball with us, please, and we'll shove the bat...".
As always market forces prevail. If it was financially worthwhile I would consider signing up again. It isn't and hasn't been ever since I retired. Simple.
My point is simply that the terms aren't favourable enough to draw back in any great numbers the more experienced people that the Service admits it now needs, to a critical degree in some areas.
The reason is this: It cannot be seen that there is a disparity in rewards, seen to disadvantage those already serving.
But I earned my pension, the contributions came out of my salary. I'm certainly not prepared to give it up to avoid upsetting a perceived applecart. The Service actually does take away the pension of people like myself, for the "privilege" of re-joining. Call it abatement if you like but it's taken away. It would be OK if it was re-invested for the individual, but it's not, it's just taken. It really is a case of "you play ball with us, please, and we'll shove the bat...".
As always market forces prevail. If it was financially worthwhile I would consider signing up again. It isn't and hasn't been ever since I retired. Simple.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 25th Aug 2002 at 09:50.
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TicketyBoo - for my case you are spot on and sadly Shy Torque you right as well.
Thanks to everyone for their contributions to my initial post and I think it's reached the stage where the next step is to put pen to paper... but not quite yet until I see what the Autumn airline recruiting round has to offer.
Regards
Thanks to everyone for their contributions to my initial post and I think it's reached the stage where the next step is to put pen to paper... but not quite yet until I see what the Autumn airline recruiting round has to offer.
Regards
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BW - have sent you a private message with details as far as I understand them. Be aware that, with the introduction of the PA spine in Apr 2003, things may become even more complicated in terms of your options! Any quessies, and I'd be happy to sniff around PSF/PMA on your behalf.
