Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F-18 Ski-Jump Trials

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F-18 Ski-Jump Trials

Old 21st Dec 2020, 08:11
  #1 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
F-18 Ski-Jump Trials

ORAC is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2020, 18:25
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I assume I am not the only one who can't see anything in ORAC's post?

Presumably it is PPRuNe's tw*tter aversion. Boeing twted a video of trial launch

https:_//_t.co/eBSaYF97sy (remove _s)


Story here amongst other places https://eurasiantimes.com/boeing-f-a-18-super-hornet-almost-ready-for-indian-navy-carriers-as-it-clears-ski-jump-test

Flight Global in February:
Boeing has confirmed plans to conduct ski-jump take-off tests with the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet during the first quarter of 2020.

Jeff Shockey, vice-president global sales and marketing at Boeing Defense, Space & Security, says the trials are being driven by an Indian navy fighter requirement.
India’s only carrier, the INS Vikramaditya, is equipped with a ski-jump ramp to launch aircraft, as is a second carrier - the INS Vikrant - that has yet to enter service.
Can we have some please? On a (slightly) serious note, might Growlers be a useful addition at a future date - are the QEs still fitted for but not with arrestor gear?

Last edited by SLXOwft; 21st Dec 2020 at 18:36.
SLXOwft is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2020, 18:48
  #3 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Given the price quoted I’d suggest the answer to “fitted for” is a definitive no....
ORAC is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2020, 20:02
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wonder if the F-18 has had any software updates to change to the angled launch as the software flies the aircraft off the Carrier.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 11:33
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 66
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They experimented with a Jaguar many years ago, although they started at the top of the ramp and ran it down to get a bit more speed......
Wensleydale is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 12:34
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kudos to the Test Pilot

There can have been few flight test jobs as terrifying as sitting in a Jaguar on the deck of a carrier.

They must have drawn straws for that one.

I would have insisted the carrier run with engines at 150% to generate 40 knots of wind over the deck and waited for the Captain to point straight into a bloody strong gale before agreeing to strap a Jaguar to a catapult.

To be fair you could show me the ODM figures and Id still need a hell of a lot of convincing that an F18 off a ski ramp is a good idea as well. Even with its high alpha capabilities that must be a scary gig.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 14:15
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 350/3 Compton
Age: 74
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wensleydale View Post
They experimented with a Jaguar many years ago, although they started at the top of the ramp and ran it down to get a bit more speed......
You may laugh (and many did!) but the Jag was supposed to be built for the French Navy!

Mog
Mogwi is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 14:49
  #8 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To be fair, if you need the curvature of the earth to be able to climb, flat ocean is probably a good place to start......
ORAC is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 15:51
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jaguar M

Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post
You may laugh (and many did!) but the Jag was supposed to be built for the French Navy!

Mog
Minnie Burner is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 15:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post
You may laugh (and many did!) but the Jag was supposed to be built for the French Navy!

Mog
I wondered why the French carriers were so much taller than ours...
dead_pan is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 18:51
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: virginia, USA
Age: 55
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Perhaps of interest, a US study on ski jumps. Commented on the 1979 US Navy trials with F-14, F-18 and T-2C with the F/A-18 taking the ramp some 91 times, then goes into length about ground based use by USAF types. The F-4E was not suitable due to excessive forward stick requirements. I also seem to recall the E-2 Hawkeye was ruled out from ski jumps during US navy studies, maybe due to gear loading- can't quite recall?

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a237265.pdf


sandiego89 is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2020, 22:17
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A Jag off a carrier would come fourth at the international birdman competition.




..

Last edited by NutLoose; 28th Dec 2020 at 19:03.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 23rd Dec 2020, 17:04
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Technical question: I have now seen ORAC's original post in Chrome on my phone and on MS Edge on my laptop but still can't in my preferred browser Firefox, any IT techies able to explain?

Back to the subject - the cynic in me wondered about the length of roll and fuel load for the clean config. Bubba's video clip starts at the base of the ramp.

Anone know if the story that the evaluation report of the Jaguar M v the (single engined) Super Etendard marked the Jag down because of it's handling characteristics with one engine is true?
SLXOwft is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2020, 01:45
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: virginia, USA
Age: 55
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SLXOwft View Post
Anone know if the story that the evaluation report of the Jaguar M v the (single engined) Super Etendard marked the Jag down because of it's handling characteristics with one engine is true?
It does seem that throttle response and poor single-engine performance (thrust was never a strong suite) was cited as a reason for not proceeding with the M, but my understanding the higher cost of the Jaguar M was a larger driver, meaning they could not afford the desired 100 airframes. The Super Entendard was pitched as a cheaper alternative so they could buy more airframes, quietly ignoring any single-engine worries. As it turned out, the SuE costs crept up and it was never bought in the numbers originally desired either. I also understand there was a desire to spread some work to Dassault (jobs). So sounds like a bit of politics, favoritism, under bidding and cost creep- a typical cycle!
sandiego89 is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2020, 04:18
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: the far south
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I never understood why the French were involved with the Jaguar.

At the same time they were developing the Mirage F1 which is very similar to the Jag in terms of weight as well as thrust and wing loading.

Says a lot about why the Mirage F1 was the greatest fighter though!

What did a Jag do that the Mirage F1 could not?

The Super E was was few year behind but also broadly similar.
typerated is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2020, 09:41
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sandiego89 View Post
It does seem that throttle response and poor single-engine performance (thrust was never a strong suite) was cited as a reason for not proceeding with the M
Would the airbrake location mean that they couldn't be extended on landing too?
Darren_P is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2020, 18:33
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK on a crosswind
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Getting back to the original post about FA-18s being trialled on ski jump. The Indian carrier apparently has no cat just like ours. AFAIK it is not bigger than QE or POW - so the question arises about using conventional aircraft flying off them too.
Royalistflyer is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2020, 18:48
  #18 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 13,710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You can probably get airborne - as long as you don’t want to go anywhere or carry anything....
ORAC is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2020, 22:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Next to Ross and Demelza
Age: 51
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by typerated View Post
I never understood why the French were involved with the Jaguar.

At the same time they were developing the Mirage F1 which is very similar to the Jag in terms of weight as well as thrust and wing loading.

Says a lot about why the Mirage F1 was the greatest fighter though!

What did a Jag do that the Mirage F1 could not?

The Super E was was few year behind but also broadly similar.
Breguet were working on the Jag as a strike aircraft along with BAC, with Dassault developing the F.1 as a pure fighter aircraft. Of course, then Dassault developed a multi-role F.1, the two companies merged and the idea of flogging an all-French jet was a better idea than one with 'Built in UK' stamped on half of it. Hence why Jaguar exports were all chased by and signed up by BAC/BAe. And the French still got to build half of each one.
Martin the Martian is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2020, 23:01
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 68
Posts: 1,387
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Wasn't the Breguet 121 originally proposed as a NATO light-fighter replacement for all the Sabres and F84s rattling around? Competition eventually won by the Fiat G91. I can remember reading in 'Look and Learn' back in the 60s about the Jaguar being the replacement for the Gnat in AFTS service, too.
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.