AWACS replacement moving

[Steamer Ned]

Somewhat off-track with this request but, having a couple of family friends serving with 2 Squadron at Williamtown, they and I would all like to know why the RAF E-7s are going to be known as Wedgetails in service? Since the RAAF chose the name originally to reference the Wedge-Tail Eagle, native to Australia only, we avian pedants are a little bit intrigued!

Thanks in advance, Ned

[pr00ne]

Steamer Ned,

Perhaps because it has a name already?

Not sure why it being named after an Australian thing precludes it, after all the RAF did name its first jet bomber Canberra after the aussie capital.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

"The move to Lossiemouth is possibly to give Westmonster a bit of leverage when Wee Jimmy Crankie calls for IndyRef again. Go for it and we'll move Wedgetail to Waddington and take the jobs away from Northern Scotland."

If Krankie gets her way it's a choice of losing big bucks as above or dealing with a second SBA on her manor. What percentage of the Wedgetail/Poseidon fleet could she claim was Scottish? This would be like the Ukraine claiming the Tu160's but not having the money or expertise to operate them.

[TwoTunnels]

Originally Posted by Steamer Ned

Somewhat off-track with this request but, having a couple of family friends serving with 2 Squadron at Williamtown, they and I would all like to know why the RAF E-7s are going to be known as Wedgetails in service? Since the RAAF chose the name originally to reference the Wedge-Tail Eagle, native to Australia only, we avian pedants are a little bit intrigued!

Thanks in advance, Ned

Maybe we should have called it AirPeaceEagleEyeTail - a bit of everything (Turkey, South Korea, Australia). As absurd as AIRSEEKER.

I'm sure that TG12 and TG12 Officers will love the delights that Elgin has to offer... Downtoen, Joannas, Natural Spice...

[Dan Gerous]

Originally Posted by Akrotiri bad boy

"The move to Lossiemouth is possibly to give Westmonster a bit of leverage when Wee Jimmy Crankie calls for IndyRef again. Go for it and we'll move Wedgetail to Waddington and take the jobs away from Northern Scotland."

If Krankie gets her way it's a choice of losing big bucks as above or dealing with a second SBA on her manor. What percentage of the Wedgetail/Poseidon fleet could she claim was Scottish? This would be like the Ukraine claiming the Tu160's but not having the money or expertise to operate them.

ABB, were keeping everything that is at Lossie, the rest of the Typhoon fleet, half the transports and helis, you can keep the F35 and the barge. The way Westminster negotiates deals, you should be grateful you're even getting that.

[Martin the Martian]

The Canberra was named as such largely because we were trying to persuade Australia to buy them for the RAAF. Never underestimate a bit of flattery.

[dctyke]

Originally Posted by Martin the Martian

The Canberra was named as such largely because we were trying to persuade Australia to buy them for the RAAF. Never underestimate a bit of flattery.

F104G. That will work!

[Lima Juliet]

TG12 is no longer. Now all in TG7. Officers have been Air Ops Branch for some time.

Anyway, all change again in the New Year when the new “Astra Professions” are finalised. Rumour is that the “Aircrew Profession” replaces the Flying Branch and Non-Commissioned Aircrew (the latter have been Airman Aircrew and the 1946 Aircrew Scheme in the past too). I’d guess that Air Ops will remain the same, with maybe a bit of ‘space’ thrown into their profession title - Air & Space Ops? There are supposed to be 10x Professions, so it is still anyone’s guess what they will be, but how they are split is still to be decided and announced.

Sorry for the thread drift.

[Willard Whyte]

Originally Posted by Lima Juliet

TG12 is no longer. Now all in TG7. Officers have been Air Ops Branch for some time.

Anyway, all change again in the New Year when the new “Astra Professions” are finalised. Rumour is that the “Aircrew Profession” replaces the Flying Branch and Non-Commissioned Aircrew (the latter have been Airman Aircrew and the 1946 Aircrew Scheme in the past too). I’d guess that Air Ops will remain the same, with maybe a bit of ‘space’ thrown into their profession title - Air & Space Ops? There are supposed to be 10x Professions, so it is still anyone’s guess what they will be, but how they are split is still to be decided and announced.

Sorry for the thread drift.

To be honest I don't think anyone at the coalface gives a stuff about what their airships call us, as long as we get paid the same (or more). Can't imagine many of us oldies will be trading in the brevets with which we graduated to some new fangled rainbow sh*te either.

[Corporal Clott]

Willard Whyte - which certificate will you be trading in? You do know that the word is French for a patent, diploma or certificate:

brevet

[bʀəvɛ]
MASCULINE NOUN
1. (also: brevet d’invention) patent
2. (= certificat) diploma ⧫ certificate

[MFC_Fly]

Originally Posted by Corporal Clott

which certificate will you be trading in?

Probably the one he got when he was presented with his flying badge, like I was, hence why the flying badge can be referred to as a brevet

[ORAC]

Maybe we should have called it AirPeaceEagleEyeTail - a bit of everything (Turkey, South Korea, Australia). As absurd as AIRSEEKER.

Airseeker is the name of the acquisition project - the name of the Aircraft remains Rivet Joint.....

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/airs...w-rivet-joint/

[Lima Juliet]

can be referred to as a brevet

No, no, no, that is incorrect. Under QR206 and QRJ727 it has always been a flying badge (and every previous version of KRs and QRs). The King’s and Queen’ Orders have always called them flying badges. Only those in error ever called them ‘brevets’. Have a read of Wg Cdr ‘Jeff’ Jefford’s excellent book and it explains all - a cut down version is here: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...Journal-52.pdf

Turn to page 103. Here is a quick snippet:

The first point that needs to be made is that flying badges are not ‘brevets’. From the mid 19th Century the British Army used the term brevet, to indicate accelerated, but unpaid, promotion in recognition of particularly notable service (as in a captain becoming a brevet major). A ’brevet’ – French for a certificate – was actually the document authorising such an advance. Its use in the context of aviation arose as a result of a number of early British aviators learning to fly at French schools where they gained the certificate – the -‘brevet’ – of the Aero Club de la France.
 It became common practice to refer to the equivalent Royal Aero Club Certificate, which all British pilots (including, until mid 1916, all military pilots) were required to obtain, as a brevet. Later, this was evidently (mis)understood by some non-Francophone pilots to refer to a flying badge and they have been getting it wrong ever since. Although ‘brevet’ has long been current within the crew room argot, it has never featured in authoritative documents which, until very recently (page 124 and 126) have always reflected the correct nomenclature, eg King’s and/or Queen’s Regulations, Air Ministry Orders and Defence Council Instructions.

Now the error that had crept into AP1358 Ch 7 by incorrectly referring to the WSO and WSOp Flying Badge as a “Rear Crew Brevet” was also corrected by Her Majesty the Queen in Sep 19, when a new Royal Order correctly termed it the WSO and WSOp Flying Badge - RAF IBN 16/20 was released on 7 Apr 20 that also ensured the correct term ‘flying badge’ is used. Also, the awful and incorrect term ‘Rear Crew’ was dropped (some of whom had sat in front of Pilots in the Canberra and side-by-side in a number of aircraft cockpits) and the new term of ‘Mission Aircrew’ is now used. Finally, AP1358 Ch 7 was updated and any erroneous reference to ‘Rear Crew’ or ‘Brevet’ has now been removed from the AP.

[SLXOwft]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Airseeker is the name of the acquisition project - the name of the Aircraft remains Rivet Joint.....

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/airs...w-rivet-joint/

We've been round the circuit on this multiple times. But as the article quoted be ORAC concludes "Rivet Joint has been deployed extensively for Operation Shader and on other operational taskings. It had been formally named Airseeker, but is almost universally known in service as the RC-135W Rivet Joint." With the the close relationship with the USAF RC-135V/W operations, however, a common name makes sense,

Still can't fathom why it takes two threads to discuss the basing of the UK's Boeing '737 Airborne Early Warning and Control System'. I expect the operators will come up with an amusing nickname. I am sure the Caledonian 'avian pedants' would prefer 'Whitetail' as it's a local eagle species.

[spitfirek5054]

JOCKBIRD,? or Wee Krankie....

[Lomon]

Originally Posted by Lima Juliet

I’d guess that Air Ops will remain the same, with maybe a bit of ‘space’ thrown into their profession title - Air & Space Ops?

That has already happened in April 2020. TG9 and TG12 were merged to become TG7 and renamed Air and Space Operations.

[reds & greens]

Originally Posted by Lima Juliet

No, no, no, that is incorrect. Under QR206 and QRJ727 it has always been a flying badge (and every previous version of KRs and QRs). The King’s and Queen’ Orders have always called them flying badges. Only those in error ever called them ‘brevets’. Have a read of Wg Cdr ‘Jeff’ Jefford’s excellent book and it explains all - a cut down version is here: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...Journal-52.pdf

Turn to page 103. Here is a quick snippet:



Now the error that had crept into AP1358 Ch 7 by incorrectly referring to the WSO and WSOp Flying Badge as a “Rear Crew Brevet” was also corrected by Her Majesty the Queen in Sep 19, when a new Royal Order correctly termed it the WSO and WSOp Flying Badge - RAF IBN 16/20 was released on 7 Apr 20 that also ensured the correct term ‘flying badge’ is used. Also, the awful and incorrect term ‘Rear Crew’ was dropped (some of whom had sat in front of Pilots in the Canberra and side-by-side in a number of aircraft cockpits) and the new term of ‘Mission Aircrew’ is now used. Finally, AP1358 Ch 7 was updated and any erroneous reference to ‘Rear Crew’ or ‘Brevet’ has now been removed from the AP.

Christ, I hope I never get stood next to you in the corner at a party...

[Asturias56]

One has to ask "does it really matter"?

[Willard Whyte]

Originally Posted by reds & greens

Christ, I hope I never get stood next to you in the corner at a party...

Never a 'like' button the one needs it.

Originally Posted by Asturias56

One has to ask "does it really matter"?

Indeed.

When PPRuNe becomes an official 'AP' I might start caring.

[ORAC]

That has already happened in April 2020. TG9 and TG12 were merged to become TG7 and renamed Air and Space Operations.

I presume they’re still referred to as Scopies?