RAF recruitment statistics
I had a fascinating conversation whilst waiting for a flight home from Cyprus with a lad of Indian descent. He was an Officer and was immensely proud of this fact, which I thought was great, as many are not.
The conversation progressed and he said with a heavy heart that his family pretty much disowned him for the first 5 yrs of his career and only his brother attended his graduation from IOT ...
The conversation progressed and he said with a heavy heart that his family pretty much disowned him for the first 5 yrs of his career and only his brother attended his graduation from IOT ...
On a lighter note, back in the 60s I knew a black Lightning pilot, a very rara avis in those days. He used to come and join our poker school from time, and although I am sure he was an ace pilot, he was a terrible poker player, and we used to welcome him with open arms as we knew we were going to take money off him!
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We had the combination in Germany of an Indian Sengo and Jengo, the Jengo used to wear a full Turban etc and one day he turned up hair shorn and minus Turban, from what I gather he wore it as a respect to his late father, but after his passing he decided on a change, ultimate respect to him.
What astonishes me is we have a thread entitled "RAF recruitment statistics" which is now on its third page and no-one has posted the actual numbers...............
Yeah, and the original report wasn't about BAME not wanting to join, it was about some categories not scoring well in the airman aptitude tests (or whatever they're called)
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In the past it didn’t matter if people failed the aptitude tests as you still had a large pool to choose from, today the army etc have had to lower standards to attain recruitment levels that are still woeful.
Asturias, I found the attached tables as part of a FOI request to the RAF which was initially turned down. It was answered after a successful appeal the requester pointed out he had already received similar data from the RN and Army. I put aside doubts about the motives of the requester, there was an identically worded request from another person a few days later. There are usual caveats about excluding small groups that could lead to identification of individuals.
Table 5 on number of applicants is of concern to anyone interested in a better racial balance.
FOI request at:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...coming-1644897
Table 5 on number of applicants is of concern to anyone interested in a better racial balance.
FOI request at:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...coming-1644897
Question then is should you take everybody who wants to join. Put them through a 14 week basic training and education process and then do the aptitude tests at the end. Sure some will wash out anyway but you may also overcome some of the bias in testing.
Thanks SLXOwft - I see what you mean
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Strange how they speak of integration and I’ve noticed this in a lot of applications, the lists posted for ethnicity as shown in post 49.
Surely it should read as an example out of the above list
English / Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish / British Mixed Black Caribbean and White.
After all most of those applying WILL be second or greater generation immigrants who were born in the U.K. so by definition ARE English/ Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish.
To list them as the Services have done infers that to be “English / Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish / British” means you have to be white. So much for racial integration.
Any Chinese Background
Any Other White Background
Arab
Asian Bangladeshi
Asian Indian
Asian Pakistani
Black African
Black Caribbean
Declined To Declare
Mixed Asian And White
Mixed Black African And White
Mixed Black Caribbean And White
Other Asian Background
Other Black Background
Other Ethnic Background
Other Mixed Ethnic Background
White English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British
Any Other White Background
Arab
Asian Bangladeshi
Asian Indian
Asian Pakistani
Black African
Black Caribbean
Declined To Declare
Mixed Asian And White
Mixed Black African And White
Mixed Black Caribbean And White
Other Asian Background
Other Black Background
Other Ethnic Background
Other Mixed Ethnic Background
White English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British
English / Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish / British Mixed Black Caribbean and White.
After all most of those applying WILL be second or greater generation immigrants who were born in the U.K. so by definition ARE English/ Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish.
To list them as the Services have done infers that to be “English / Welsh / Scottish / Northern Irish / British” means you have to be white. So much for racial integration.
Nutloose, all of the categories are either 'racial origin' or colour based at the start e.g. white English etc. I know what you mean though; the armed forces are supposed to be colour-blind when recruiting/promoting, but are also forced to pigeon-hole by race/colour when recording details of applicants, so both ends working against the middle in some ways.
I think just examining what makes the forces attract people by looking at what the forces have to offer, will only ever give an incomplete answer. You start getting a clearer picture when you compare the services with other occupations and parts of the public sector (NHS etc.). My own view is that it might be better to assume that the services will always be seen by most as lacking in appeal compared to the professions and quite a few other leading industries/areas of the public sector. With that in mind, the service offering should consider a genuinely compelling and beneficial counterpart to any time in uniform, probably along the lines of paying for a degree or other genuine professional qualification, open to all ranks, that can be taken up after a minimum engagement period. This would take quite a lot of investment, rather than the somewhat half-hearted attempt (with limited scope) at the moment, but most ambitious people from ethnic minorities (and whites as it happens) pretty much agree that a good education is invaluable. It would take quite a bit of money and change in the culture to convert the services to having such a 'two-part' offering, but I think it would at least put the armed forces in a bit of better place on a list of career choices.
I think just examining what makes the forces attract people by looking at what the forces have to offer, will only ever give an incomplete answer. You start getting a clearer picture when you compare the services with other occupations and parts of the public sector (NHS etc.). My own view is that it might be better to assume that the services will always be seen by most as lacking in appeal compared to the professions and quite a few other leading industries/areas of the public sector. With that in mind, the service offering should consider a genuinely compelling and beneficial counterpart to any time in uniform, probably along the lines of paying for a degree or other genuine professional qualification, open to all ranks, that can be taken up after a minimum engagement period. This would take quite a lot of investment, rather than the somewhat half-hearted attempt (with limited scope) at the moment, but most ambitious people from ethnic minorities (and whites as it happens) pretty much agree that a good education is invaluable. It would take quite a bit of money and change in the culture to convert the services to having such a 'two-part' offering, but I think it would at least put the armed forces in a bit of better place on a list of career choices.
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Nutloose, all of the categories are either 'racial origin' or colour based at the start e.g. white English etc. I know what you mean though; the armed forces are supposed to be colour-blind when recruiting/promoting, but are also forced to pigeon-hole by race/colour when recording details of applicants, so both ends working against the middle in some ways.
I think just examining what makes the forces attract people by looking at what the forces have to offer, will only ever give an incomplete answer. You start getting a clearer picture when you compare the services with other occupations and parts of the public sector (NHS etc.). My own view is that it might be better to assume that the services will always be seen by most as lacking in appeal compared to the professions and quite a few other leading industries/areas of the public sector. With that in mind, the service offering should consider a genuinely compelling and beneficial counterpart to any time in uniform, probably along the lines of paying for a degree or other genuine professional qualification, open to all ranks, that can be taken up after a minimum engagement period. This would take quite a lot of investment, rather than the somewhat half-hearted attempt (with limited scope) at the moment, but most ambitious people from ethnic minorities (and whites as it happens) pretty much agree that a good education is invaluable. It would take quite a bit of money and change in the culture to convert the services to having such a 'two-part' offering, but I think it would at least put the armed forces in a bit of better place on a list of career choices.
I think just examining what makes the forces attract people by looking at what the forces have to offer, will only ever give an incomplete answer. You start getting a clearer picture when you compare the services with other occupations and parts of the public sector (NHS etc.). My own view is that it might be better to assume that the services will always be seen by most as lacking in appeal compared to the professions and quite a few other leading industries/areas of the public sector. With that in mind, the service offering should consider a genuinely compelling and beneficial counterpart to any time in uniform, probably along the lines of paying for a degree or other genuine professional qualification, open to all ranks, that can be taken up after a minimum engagement period. This would take quite a lot of investment, rather than the somewhat half-hearted attempt (with limited scope) at the moment, but most ambitious people from ethnic minorities (and whites as it happens) pretty much agree that a good education is invaluable. It would take quite a bit of money and change in the culture to convert the services to having such a 'two-part' offering, but I think it would at least put the armed forces in a bit of better place on a list of career choices.
Aptitude tests pretty much follow the bias of the person writing the tests. People from many background cannot hope to fit into lots of different requirements of aptitude tests with ease.
In taking everybody in, as suggested then you can work, train, evaluate and then test.
You may not get the same people BUT you may open the door for others.
IF you do the same as always, why would would you be surprised when the result comes back the same..
In taking everybody in, as suggested then you can work, train, evaluate and then test.
You may not get the same people BUT you may open the door for others.
IF you do the same as always, why would would you be surprised when the result comes back the same..
Kristal n Chips, glad to hear it, in which case that needs to be front-and-centre on the RAF website with a list of the kinds of degree, MBA etc. the RAF will fully pay for, and ideally the institutions with which arrangements already exist. Then perhaps after a couple more clips an enquirer will gradually become aware they have to also join the RAF and serve some minimum period.
Kristal n Chips, glad to hear it, in which case that needs to be front-and-centre on the RAF website with a list of the kinds of degree, MBA etc. the RAF will fully pay for, and ideally the institutions with which arrangements already exist. Then perhaps after a couple more clips an enquirer will gradually become aware they have to also join the RAF and serve some minimum period.
Lesson : take every recruitment initiative with a pinch of salt because the MOD can and will move the goal posts if it suits them.
