AAC AH-64E Arrives in the UK
Don't forget the USMC transports sets of 3 helicopters around all the time assembling and then dis-assembling them frequently whenever the POTUS is visiting a particular country.
During the Clinton era, they brought in 3 x S61s in a C5 landing late morning at Farnborough and they were assembled and being test flown that evening.
During the Clinton era, they brought in 3 x S61s in a C5 landing late morning at Farnborough and they were assembled and being test flown that evening.
Exactly. I thought that was the whole reason for compatibility between heavy lift transport and helicopters - fly them to operational locations and get them flying soon after arrival.
Remember, these are brand new airframes from the manufacturer, and haven't even been through acceptance checks yet.
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air, so a road move to a MOB is really the only option.
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air, so a road move to a MOB is really the only option.
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I was just suprised they were originally going into Brize not Mildenhall: c.150 miles by road to Wattisham vs c.35 miles. As C2004 pointed out they are now going through MHL, mostly arriving in batches of three since late 2021. Not having to make an empty return or positioning flight would seem to make sense, even if Wattisham's runway could take a C-17 or C-5.
Remember, these are brand new airframes from the manufacturer, and haven't even been through acceptance checks yet.
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air, so a road move to a MOB is really the only option.
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air, so a road move to a MOB is really the only option.
In previous jobs I conducted acceptance flights on two types from the OEMs - 6 airframes from Eurocopter in Marignane, and 3 from Sikorsky in Philadelphia. Both processes involved flight tests with OEM TP/FTE followed by debriefing the delivery team and following up with snags. Then retests and acceptance.
Last edited by 212man; 29th Oct 2023 at 14:00.
[QUOTE=
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air.[/QUOTE]
Not really their strongpoint, considering they couldn't manage the VGS Glider fleet.
I expect the MAA has some onerous paperwork that needs to be satisfied before these can take to the air.[/QUOTE]
Not really their strongpoint, considering they couldn't manage the VGS Glider fleet.
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[QUOTE=212man;11529462]
Stansted regulary handles the seasonal movement of the various VIP helicopter fleets from the Emirates
Well, these may be valid but I find them slightly incredulous.
1. A few years ago my organisation imported three Sikorsky S-92s into Brunei, in an AN124. We used the Royal Brunei Air Force hangar facilities to reassemble them - main rotor blades, two tail rotor blades each plus re-pressurise the undercarriage. Then a day or two of track and balance and we flew them down the coast to our operating base, 20 min away. How much more than this is involved with these 64s?
2. Stansted is a major air cargo hub (3rd largest in UK with plans to expand). One C-17 is hardly impacting the airline traffic.
3. One airframe cycle? Seriously?
1. A few years ago my organisation imported three Sikorsky S-92s into Brunei, in an AN124. We used the Royal Brunei Air Force hangar facilities to reassemble them - main rotor blades, two tail rotor blades each plus re-pressurise the undercarriage. Then a day or two of track and balance and we flew them down the coast to our operating base, 20 min away. How much more than this is involved with these 64s?
2. Stansted is a major air cargo hub (3rd largest in UK with plans to expand). One C-17 is hardly impacting the airline traffic.
3. One airframe cycle? Seriously?
Chevron, that's not the take I got from the comment. Yes the aircraft would have been test flown at the factory. But acceptance checks for me are; any major dings or dents during transport, was it built to the project specifications, is all the ordered equipment attached or included in the package that arrived. Are all the safety systems functional and fully charged.
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. The factory maintenance manuals came printed on yellow paper and as they were checked, they were altered or accepted, and those sections were printed again in white. Until eventually you got a full white paged manual.
You could argue the Chinook mk3 was factory tested, but was not accepted into service and became hangar queens for years.
Heavens above, I see "The Good Ideas Club" are in fine fettle about the transporting of the cabs from Brize to Wattisham.
The people tasked with the job had the necessary info available to them, assessed the variables, came up with a plan and executed it successfully. The Good Ideas Club had none of the necessary information, had not been briefed on the variables and funnily enough had not been tasked via the internet to carry out the task. I fail to see how any of the examples given "in my day" are in any way relevant. You can point out the faults you have found as much as you like, but it makes not one zot of difference.
How about just letting the tasked personnel get on with their jobs and not have to listen to the waffle from the Monday Morning Jury?
The people tasked with the job had the necessary info available to them, assessed the variables, came up with a plan and executed it successfully. The Good Ideas Club had none of the necessary information, had not been briefed on the variables and funnily enough had not been tasked via the internet to carry out the task. I fail to see how any of the examples given "in my day" are in any way relevant. You can point out the faults you have found as much as you like, but it makes not one zot of difference.
How about just letting the tasked personnel get on with their jobs and not have to listen to the waffle from the Monday Morning Jury?
Last edited by sittingstress; 30th Oct 2023 at 17:34. Reason: Re thought the second paragraph
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I hadn't previously noticed that an order for a fourth Apache crew trainer was announced in July. I believe 36 of the 50 Es ordered have been delivered - just over 7 years since the initial order was announced.
Why indeed? But MoD has a long history of doing so. It's not an error as such, but forced upon procurers by other MoD policies and political machinations. The Treasury Solicitor must approve acceptance of equipment off contract when it cannot be certified. The question is therefore - did he? You could apply this to almost any Chinook contract in the past 40 years.
It's probably down to cost, it is probably a lot cheaper to transport the helicopters by road from Brize Norton to Wattisham rather than fly an empty C17 from Wattisham, Mildenhall or Stansted to Brize Norton
ISTR you can't put a C17 into Wattisham as the clearances on the taxiways aren't big enough.
The AH1s had some equipment stripped in the UK then were dismantled for parts retrieval at Huntsville, AL in the US and the recycled parts used in the assembly of the UK E V6s in Mesa, AZ onto airframes manufactured in India.
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I used to work with a guy that did Victor Mods, apparently the Victors would roll off the line, fly to a Station and be stripped down and Mods incorporated into them, such was the production line flow that any Mods that came up would have stopped the line, as you would be building to the latest version those starting on the line or dismantling those on the line to bring them up to the latest version, so they were all built PreMod, flown to delivery then modified before entering service.
I used to work with a guy that did Victor Mods, apparently the Victors would roll off the line, fly to a Station and be stripped down and Mods incorporated into them, such was the production line flow that any Mods that came up would have stopped the line, as you would be building to the latest version those starting on the line or dismantling those on the line to bring them up to the latest version, so they were all built PreMod, flown to delivery then modified before entering service.