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Aussie SAS report

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Aussie SAS report

Old 1st Dec 2020, 13:15
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We sleep safe in our beds , because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence against those who would harm us . Eric Blair
Take away those rough men and it will be good night Vienna .
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 17:40
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fitliker
We sleep safe in our beds , because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence against those who would harm us . Eric Blair
Take away those rough men and it will be good night Vienna .
What exactly has this to do with murdering non combatants?
BTW the quote is attributed to Eric Blair but doesn't appear in any of the work written by him under his own name nor as George Orwell.
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 18:02
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"You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall..." No, that didn't hold up for Nathan P Jessup either.

CG
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 19:52
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by beardy
What exactly has this to do with murdering non combatants?
BTW the quote is attributed to Eric Blair but doesn't appear in any of the work written by him under his own name nor as George Orwell.
The quote I used was taken from ISBN 0-06-056409-1 page vii in the introduction . The quote was attributed to George Orwell ( Eric Blair to his Scottish friends )
The book was written by a man with over fifty years experience hunting his countries enemies . Doing what needed to be done . He earned eight Purple Hearts the hard way .And a few other gongs . The other quote on that page is Isaiah 6 .
Hunting the Jackal by Billy Waugh and Tim Keown published by Harper Collins .
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 20:30
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fitliker
The quote I used was taken from ISBN 0-06-056409-1 page vii in the introduction . The quote was attributed to George Orwell ( Eric Blair to his Scottish friends )
The book was written by a man with over fifty years experience hunting his countries enemies . Doing what needed to be done . He earned eight Purple Hearts the hard way .And a few other gongs . The other quote on that page is Isaiah 6 .
Hunting the Jackal by Billy Waugh and Tim Keown published by Harper Collins .
So nothing to do with murdering non combatants.
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 00:26
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blackout

None of these places were about to invade Australia?
Is that your litmus test whether the Australian military should be committed to a military conflict?


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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 01:44
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan
I hope there is scrutiny about the wisdom of having troops given so many deployments, one cited six month deployment every year for a period of six years, that's three years on the front line, and folk wonder why between 2001 and 2016, there were a total of 373 suicides among Australian service, reserve and former members of the Defence Force, against 41 lost in Afghanistan as of 2018. Far too much is being asked of the troops IMHO, and we wonder why they trip the traces, fighting an enemy that doesn't wear a uniform, a foe that uses children in operations, untrustworthy Afghanistan soldiers who are just as likely to kill you. Vietnam all over again, and seemingly the lessons have been forgotten.
Do you soldiers get fatigued like Pilots ? Might be part of the defence if the allegations ever make it to a Trial .

Last edited by fitliker; 2nd Dec 2020 at 02:00.
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 06:06
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Do you soldiers get fatigued like Pilots
I think the number of suicides I mentioned may possibly give some hint to the answer.
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 08:00
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Therefore there must always be accountability for those that send soldiers into battle on behalf of their societies (usually politicians). The more accountable we hold these politicians through the democratic process, the more discerning their decisions will be
...Hands down....one of the funniest things I've seen written in the almost 20 years I've been on PPrune!....(Is there a "you gotta be kiddin' me" emoji?)
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 09:16
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fliegenmong
...Hands down....one of the funniest things I've seen written in the almost 20 years I've been on PPrune!....(Is there a "you gotta be kiddin' me" emoji?)
I'm too young to remember the Nuremberg trials, but old enough to see the fallout.
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 09:24
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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A US Marine serving with the USMC’s Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 469 (HMLA-469) has also come forward to report several incidents when working with 2CDO. He relates that during exfiltration after a joint 2CDO operation with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) in Helmand Province, the pilot of their helicopter told the Commandos that they only had room for six detainees (or PUCs- persons under control – as they are known in the vernacular).

“And the pilot said, ‘That’s too many people, we can’t carry that many passengers.’ And you just heard this silence and then we heard a pop. And then they said, ‘OK, we have six prisoners’. So it was pretty apparent to everybody involved in that mission that they had just killed a prisoner that we had just watched them catch and hogtie.”


https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/10...n-afghanistan/

The Meritorious Unit Citations awarded to SOTG rotations between 2007 and 2013 will be revoked. Individual awards, presumably including the Victoria Cross, will be reconsidered and revoked should the recipient be found to have been involved in unlawful conduct. Campbell noted that:
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/11...tan-confirmed/
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 23:40
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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They might have been on intercom as he was discussing it with them, you would hear it over that if those on comms were in close proximity?
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Old 4th Dec 2020, 02:08
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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As a helo jock you could hear the conversations of pax who were seated behind you whilst flying, so I guess the reverse may well be true. The US Marine incident posted by NutLoose is not a first either, occurred in another conflict.
The Meritorious Unit Citations awarded to SOTG rotations between 2007 and 2013 will be revoked
I wonder if Angus will hand in his DSC as he was in command in 2011 which is within the period under examination.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 07:14
  #134 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...tion-d9bhscgr0

Ex-SAS soldier charged with murder after Aghanistan war crimes investigation

An Australian former SAS soldier has been charged with murder after an official investigation into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan.

Former SAS trooper Oliver Schulz, 41, is the first Australian Defence Force member to be charged with a war crime under Australian law and will face a civilian court this week.

The offence carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. It comes three years after a military investigation found that 19 special forces soldiers may have carried out unlawful killings during the decades-long conflict.

Local media named Schulz as the soldier accused of murdering Dad Mohammad, a father of two in his 20s, in a wheatfield during a SASraid in southern Afghanistan’s Uruzgan province in May 2012.

The arrest marks a historic shift in the response to suspected military wrongdoing, both in Australia and among western allies — who have avoided holding war crimes trials in civilian courts, according to international law experts.

“It’s unprecedented,” Tim McCormack, a University of Tasmania law professor and special adviser on war crimes to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague, said.

“We’ve never had a situation in the past where a member of the defence force, either current or former, has been charged with a war crime and slated for trial in a civilian court, he told the ABC news.

“I suspect that this will be an important precedent for the British, for the Canadians, for the New Zealanders and, hopefully, for other state parties [to the ICC].”….
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 18:12
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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This springs to mind....any chance this modern day version will turn out much different?

In prison cell I sadly sit,
A dammed crestfallen chappie,
And own to you I feel a bit--
A little bit—unhappy.

It really ain’t the place nor time
To reel off rhyming diction ;
But yet we’ll write a final rhyme
While waiting crucifixion.

No matter what end they decide
Quick-lime? or boiling oil? sir
We’ll do our best when crucified
To finish off in style, sir !

But we bequeath a parting tip
For sound advice of such men
Who come across in transport ship
To polish off the Dutchmen.

If you encounter any Boers
You really must not loot ‘em,
And, if you wish to leave these shores,
For pity’s sake, don’t shoot ‘em.

And if you’d earn a D.S.O.,
Why every British sinner
Should know the proper way to go
Is: Ask the Boer to dinner.

Let’s toss a bumper down our throat
Before we pass to heaven,
And toast: “The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon.”

Butchered version:
In prison cell I sadly sit,
A d_d crest-fallen chappie!
And own to you I feel a bit-
A little bit - unhappy!

It really ain't the place nor time
To reel off rhyming diction -
But yet we'll write a final rhyme
Whilst waiting cru-ci-fixion!

No matter what "end" they decide -
Quick-lime or "b'iling ile," sir?
We'll do our best when crucified
To finish off in style, sir!

But we bequeath a parting tip
For sound advice of such men,
Who come across in transport ship
To polish off the Dutchmen!

If you encounter any Boers
You really must not loot 'em!
And if you wish to leave these shores,
For pity's sake, DON'T SHOOT 'EM!!

And if you'd earn a D.S.O.,
Why every British sinner
Should know the proper way to go
Is: "ASK THE BOER TO DINNER!"

Let's toss a bumper down our throat, -
Before we pass to Heaven,
And toast: "The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon."
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 18:32
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Of serious concern is that the principle of protected identity for special forces veterans is no longer. The media has been naming them and even providing information about their locations and families. All for a story and once again trial by media.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 19:20
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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SF are not ‘special’ in this context. They are a ‘special’ element of Military forces, but still subject to the Laws of Conflict.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 19:35
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bugged on the right
Of serious concern is that the principle of protected identity for special forces veterans is no longer. The media has been naming them and even providing information about their locations and families. All for a story and once again trial by media.
You lose it all when you leave the service, plus mnay of these guys go around advertising who they are, Soldier B who I believe will be one of the next ones charged is still, or was at the time of bereton enquiry and his identry is still protected to this day.
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