JP233 release parameters and tornado wing sweep
Thread Starter
JP233 release parameters and tornado wing sweep
Hi all. I’m a model maker and I am researching the next project. Could somebody please tell me what the release parameters are for the JP233 and what sweep angle the wings would have been at the time of release, for Tornados in GW1.
Any help would be appreciated.
Steve.
Any help would be appreciated.
Steve.
I do not know the exact parameters, but I would suspect very fast and very low, and wings swept fully aft for your model. RAF doctrine at the time, especially the first part of GW1, was vey much fast and low.
I believe some of the JP233 release trial photos and videos you get on an internet search show trials under more sedate conditions.
This article has a bit about the doctrine and mindset of the time, and mentions JP233 profiles of very low level, scroll down to execution, phase.one.
https://medium.com/raf-caps/operatio...e-52fa7fb8b26e
I believe some of the JP233 release trial photos and videos you get on an internet search show trials under more sedate conditions.
This article has a bit about the doctrine and mindset of the time, and mentions JP233 profiles of very low level, scroll down to execution, phase.one.
https://medium.com/raf-caps/operatio...e-52fa7fb8b26e
Thread Starter
Thanks again everyone for chipping in. Were the large fuel tanks carried from the start of operations then?.
Steve.
Steve.
Last edited by NIREP reader; 28th Aug 2020 at 14:15.
The fuel fit was dependent on mission. By the book, the big tanks were not cleared for Auto-TF or even supersonic... but they did both. Eight-bomb fit with big tanks put you at or above (the then) heavy fit limits, but fit was reduced to 5 or 4 x 1000lbs bombs for later missions.
Recce jets predominantly flew in 3 or 4 tank fit throughout and the ALARM missions brought in the weird stick-a-tank-where-you-like fits.
The move to medium level (save for the recce jets) changed things around again, with big tanks making a return & also providing some much-needed lift when fighting thunderstorms. It also brought in the need to jettison tanks during spirited medium-level SAM evasion and the subsequent burn-down of tank stocks before the logistics caught up again.
Recce jets predominantly flew in 3 or 4 tank fit throughout and the ALARM missions brought in the weird stick-a-tank-where-you-like fits.
The move to medium level (save for the recce jets) changed things around again, with big tanks making a return & also providing some much-needed lift when fighting thunderstorms. It also brought in the need to jettison tanks during spirited medium-level SAM evasion and the subsequent burn-down of tank stocks before the logistics caught up again.
we released in 45 wing the first two nights of GW1 as we had to manually fly through AAA at low level; 63 wing wouldn't have been a great idea for doing that. The jet with tweeked engines had no problem maintaining speeds well in excess of what we were lead to believe it could do during the Cold War scenario. However, 8 bomb fit the next night was like flying with the airbrakes out.!
Green Flash, I can’t honestly say as it was nearly 30 years ago and I was heads-in working the radar and monitoring the RHWR so deliberately not scaring myself with the reality of it all.
Funny old world. Just writing about all this at the moment.
Morning one (daylight) I missed a bit on the final run in. But I thought this from a couple of folk who I interviewed might help?
"I thought the barrage would diminish as time went on but it just stayed the same, an intense firework display of white and red interweaving lines forming an impenetrable wall. It seemed like a solid mass."
"It was like driving through snow flurries in your car. The flakes come rushing towards you and, if you focus on one, at the last second it sweeps past the windscreen. But these exploding balls of bright light were not snowflakes!’
Morning one (daylight) I missed a bit on the final run in. But I thought this from a couple of folk who I interviewed might help?
"I thought the barrage would diminish as time went on but it just stayed the same, an intense firework display of white and red interweaving lines forming an impenetrable wall. It seemed like a solid mass."
"It was like driving through snow flurries in your car. The flakes come rushing towards you and, if you focus on one, at the last second it sweeps past the windscreen. But these exploding balls of bright light were not snowflakes!’
Thread Starter
Again thanks everyone for your comments. The devil is in the detail and sometimes a photo doesn’t cut it. I’m re-reading “Tornado GR1 an Operational History” which is painting a picture and I’m looking at purchasing “Thunder & Lightning’s”.
Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.
Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.
I spent a lot of time at Spadeadam during the lead up to the war and remember a lot of the work the Tornado force did.
Certainly some memorable flying.
Just interested how useful you found it in preparing for the real mission? A lot of the Smokey Sams and AAA fired during that period- Never thought the Triple AAA fireworks were realistic in the slightest - I wonder if they still use them?
John, Don't know if you can remember that far back but there was a Mallet Blow the week Iraq invaded Kuwait. The 15 Sqn anniversary jet (Red Tail) rocked up every twice a day in a 4 ship and flew more and more eye water passes as the week went on.
Sporty enough to be well remembered thirty years later - I don't know but suspect it would have been the same jet that had a slight kiss with the ground that week that gets a mention in your boss's book.
Certainly some memorable flying.
Just interested how useful you found it in preparing for the real mission? A lot of the Smokey Sams and AAA fired during that period- Never thought the Triple AAA fireworks were realistic in the slightest - I wonder if they still use them?
John, Don't know if you can remember that far back but there was a Mallet Blow the week Iraq invaded Kuwait. The 15 Sqn anniversary jet (Red Tail) rocked up every twice a day in a 4 ship and flew more and more eye water passes as the week went on.
Sporty enough to be well remembered thirty years later - I don't know but suspect it would have been the same jet that had a slight kiss with the ground that week that gets a mention in your boss's book.
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Again thanks everyone for your comments. The devil is in the detail and sometimes a photo doesn’t cut it. I’m re-reading “Tornado GR1 an Operational History” which is painting a picture and I’m looking at purchasing “Thunder & Lightning’s”.
Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.
Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.
Must be getting rare now?