Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

USAF F-15EX Contract Awarded

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

USAF F-15EX Contract Awarded

Old 9th Apr 2021, 01:04
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 69
Posts: 4,497
Received 241 Likes on 121 Posts
Originally Posted by Commando Cody
Cost figures on which I based my statements.

USAF budget documents indicate that an F-15EX will have a "flyaway" cost of $87.7 million. An F-35A delivered in 2022 will have a "flyaway" cost of $77.9 million. But you've always got to be careful when aircraft prices are listed, because the definitions are, shall we say, "fluid". To the "flyaway" cost of a F-15EX must be added the cost of major systems such as the radar and the electronic warfare suite which aren't covered in that number, whereas the "flyaway" cost of the F-35A includes those systems. So, the difference is even greater.
Are you sure about those F35 numbers being true 'flyaway'? Everything I've seen for the F35 didn't include the price of the engine (which is a big portion of the cost) while the F15 numbers included two engines.
As you said, the definitions are 'fluid'...
tdracer is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2021, 15:53
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 84
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't Be Duped by Cost Figures

Originally Posted by Commando Cody
Cost figures on which I based my statements.
USAF budget documents indicate that an F-15EX will have a "flyaway" cost of $87.7 million. An F-35A delivered in 2022 will have a "flyaway" cost of $77.9 million. But you've always got to be careful when aircraft prices are listed, because the definitions are, shall we say, "fluid". To the "flyaway" cost of a F-15EX must be added the cost of major systems such as the radar and the electronic warfare suite which aren't covered in that number, whereas the "flyaway" cost of the F-35A includes those systems. So, the difference is even greater.
The American people were promised that the F-35A would be a cost reasonable replacement for the A-10 and the F-16 when Lockheed Martin won the contract in 2001.

The latest figure tossed out by the Pentagon and Lockheed is the F-35A will cost $80 million each. No they won't! They will cost far more.
The latest Pentagon and Lockheed Martin figure touted in the press is $80 million for each F-35A in the Lot 14 batch for fiscal year 2020. But taxpayers will pay far more than that for an F-35A. This number, like the others trotted out to prove the plane’s affordability, hardly provides the full picture not just of the price per aircraft, but the program as a whole. The $80 million sticker price for the 2020 model F-35A jumps up to $110 millionwhen all aspects of the program are added together according to the USAF justification book and that doesn't include costs that were paid for in previous years. IMHO, it is best to look at the bigger picture, not just acquisition alone.

When all the operating costs for the planned fleet are calculated across the expected 50-year lifetime of the program, the American people will spend an estimated $1.727 trillion on the F-35 aircraft planned for Pentagon purchases. I don't think the F-15EX operating costs will be anything approaching the likes of the F-35.
Turbine D is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2021, 06:11
  #43 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,845
Received 1,910 Likes on 856 Posts
One of the most important points, and a sea change between the F-22/F-35 era with their incredible expense and and almost decade periods between upgrades, is the software.

For the las5 couple of decades it’s been warned that the software is more expensive - and more if a development problem - than the hardware. Perhaps that is about to change. (And it makes me wonder about the latest Russian/Chinese generations behind their flashy shut lines)...

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021...as-a-new-name/

Most important is the aircraft’s open architecture backbone, which will allow the service to quickly update the aircraft and add new capabilities, Richardson said.

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/03/...tly-retrofits/


The GAO report found that the current 2027 goal for finalizing the Block 4modernization is “not achievable.” GAO said that costs of the effort had ballooned by $1.9 billion between 2019 and 2020, bringing the overall cost to about $14.4 billion. Software development has been the primary driver of the problems, the report said — including the fact that about a quarter of the software being delivered by prime contractor Lockheed Martin was found to have defects after it had already been integrated into the aircraft.
ORAC is online now  
Old 14th Apr 2021, 22:51
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 238
Received 21 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by tdracer
Are you sure about those F35 numbers being true 'flyaway'? Everything I've seen for the F35 didn't include the price of the engine (which is a big portion of the cost) while the F15 numbers included two engines.
As you said, the definitions are 'fluid'...
Sorry for the delay. Originally, F-35 "flyaway" costs, as you say, did not include the engine. They got a lot of grief over that and so started including them, to the best of my knowledge. Now if they still weren't including them today, Boeing and its lobbyists would be all over that. It should be noted that the F-15EX engine price is an estimate. Originally to save time they were going to have all their EXs powered by F110s, as are the advanced F-15s - the F-15K, SG, SA and QA. Pratt complained and so there is now a competition going on to determine who will power the majority of the -EXs (the early ones will all be powered by F110s), so we don't yet know what the exact price of engines in the EX will be.

It's not surprising that the F-35's flyaway cost today would be lower since it benefits from a much larger order base and more rapid production rate. However, no matter how many or fast you build, that won't change the per-hour operating costs and this is where the -EX is expected to come out ahead. Once again, all these numbers and terms are "fluid".

BTW, Aviation Week is quoting the same numbers I did, FWIW.

Last edited by Commando Cody; 18th Apr 2021 at 22:25.
Commando Cody is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2021, 08:08
  #45 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,845
Received 1,910 Likes on 856 Posts
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...ist-not-f-35s/

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Air Force’s $4.2 billion wish list for fiscal 2022 includes about $1.4 billion to buy 12 more F-15EX fighters from Boeing, helping to narrow a projected gap as the service divests its aging F-15C/D fleet.

More funding for the F-15EX — which includes procurement of 24 conformal fuel tank sets and assorted spares to extend the range of the aircraft — ranked as the top priority and most expensive item on the service’s annual unfunded priorities list, which was delivered to Congress on June 1 and obtained by Defense News.

But the biggest surprise was the conspicuous absence of additional F-35 Joint Strike Fighters…….

Congress is usually amenable to boosting aircraft procurement to the levels laid out in the unfunded list, but the Air Force’s planned divestment of more than 200 aircraft in FY22 — including 42 A-10 Warthogs, 47 F-16C/Ds and 48 F-15C/Ds — could make lawmakers even more likely to increase F-15EX procurement.

The Air Force requested funds for 12 F-15EX aircraft and 48 F-35s in its FY22 budgetreleased Friday…..


ORAC is online now  
Old 25th Apr 2024, 19:59
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,175
Received 115 Likes on 57 Posts
53rd Wing

Theres total of 4 x F-15EX at Eglin as of the end of 2023 with EX3 and EX4 airframes.

https://www.53rdwing.af.mil/News/Art...rive-at-eglin/








cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2024, 20:14
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,175
Received 115 Likes on 57 Posts
Seymour Johnson F-15EX FTU 2026 onwards

All changes afoot with Seymour Johnson 4th Fighter Wing from 2026 onwards as two of the four Boeing F-15E Strike Eagle squadrons are to merge into one to become the F-15EX FTU. As far as I am aware, its the 333rd and 334th Fighter Squadron are the FTU for the strike eagle while the 335th and 336th are frontline squadrons.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ai...-15ex-awesome/

Originally the 173rd Fighter Wing in Oregon would be the F_15EX FTU but the squadron within the wing is becoming F-35A FTU

cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 9th May 2024, 18:03
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,175
Received 115 Likes on 57 Posts
F-15Ex EX7 airframe

According to Boeing FB, EX7 airframe has a lick of paint and it’s heading to 142nd Wing, Oregon Air National Guard




Cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 14th May 2024, 19:42
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 3,175
Received 115 Likes on 57 Posts
Polish interest

Do not know how reliable is the source but according to this article, Poland is interested purchasing 32 x F-15EX

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...ntent=cmp-true

Guess we will see when the FMS comes out

cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 14th May 2024, 21:49
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 900
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC
One of the most important points, and a sea change between the F-22/F-35 era with their incredible expense and and almost decade periods between upgrades, is the software.

For the las5 couple of decades it’s been warned that the software is more expensive - and more if a development problem - than the hardware. Perhaps that is about to change. (And it makes me wonder about the latest Russian/Chinese generations behind their flashy shut lines)...

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021...as-a-new-name/

Most important is the aircraft’s open architecture backbone, which will allow the service to quickly update the aircraft and add new capabilities, Richardson said.

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/03/...tly-retrofits/


The GAO report found that the current 2027 goal for finalizing the Block 4modernization is “not achievable.” GAO said that costs of the effort had ballooned by $1.9 billion between 2019 and 2020, bringing the overall cost to about $14.4 billion. Software development has been the primary driver of the problems, the report said — including the fact that about a quarter of the software being delivered by prime contractor Lockheed Martin was found to have defects after it had already been integrated into the aircraft.
The F-35 project is interesting as it's exactly the moment defence decided to get all digital, while the software world had moved on from big monolithic waterfall projects. So you get both things like the one magic lab that's the only one allowed to do anything *and* halfbaked ideas like pushing new software before you've shown it works.
steamchicken is offline  
Old 14th May 2024, 22:11
  #51 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 1,645
Received 54 Likes on 37 Posts
Originally Posted by chopper2004
Do not know how reliable is the source but according to this article, Poland is interested purchasing 32 x F-15EX

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...ntent=cmp-true

Guess we will see when the FMS comes out

cheers
Boeing offered the F-15EX to Poland in September 2023 - they were interested in it for Air Dominance

Boeing offers F-15EX for Poland, but details are scant - Breaking Defense

Boeing PR at the time

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=131318
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 15th May 2024, 20:55
  #52 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 1,645
Received 54 Likes on 37 Posts
Congress looking to block F-15E fleet cuts which were only proposed by the USAF due to overall priorities within an underfunded budget under Biden.

I think we will see a different attitude towards adequate funding of Defense in the likely next Admin.

Thankfully, the F-15EX line is being kept open due to the Indonesian order a possible future orders from Poland and Israel.

The F-15EX offers so much: 20,000 flying hour life, unmatched weapon carrying capacity in a fighter, state-of-the art electronics and easily updated architecture.

Latest here: Move To Block F-15E Strike Eagle Cuts Being Made In Congress (twz.com)
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 16th May 2024, 20:23
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 65
Posts: 7,317
Received 488 Likes on 304 Posts
Don't bet the come on that "likely next Admin" ... (and I'd love to see more F-15EX being made and such).
Lonewolf_50 is online now  
Old 17th May 2024, 11:47
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the middle of everywhere
Posts: 174
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts

I misread the 5 for an S...........
son of brommers is online now  
Old 7th Jun 2024, 19:08
  #55 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 1,645
Received 54 Likes on 37 Posts
First F-15EX delivered to an operational unit - 142nd FW Oregon ANG.


Current planned numbers are 98 - down from 144 when the USAF had to make hard choices when inadequately funded under Biden.

The deployment plot keeps changing - currently it is believed to be 2 x sqns for the USAF at Kadena AB, Japan - replacing F-15Cs retired earlier and capability gap filled by rotating F-15s/F-16s from elsewhere in the meantime - plus only 3 x ANG units.

There won't be a dedicated FTU now - merged with the F-15E one.

The F-15EX Eagle II Has Arrived In Portland | The War Zone (twz.com)
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.