Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

New Aeromed Role for BAe 146 CC3

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

New Aeromed Role for BAe 146 CC3

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 09:26
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,913
Received 2,836 Likes on 1,211 Posts
Try loading a LJ35A with a stretcher sometime, now that is interesting.
I have seen that, or getting someone strapped on a stretcher out of a Seneca as I once witnessed, that involved tipping him on his side lol and levering him around the door frame.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 10:28
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
I have seen that, or getting someone strapped on a stretcher out of a Seneca as I once witnessed, that involved tipping him on his side lol and levering him around the door frame.
Offloading an LJ35A isn't as bad as that, but have seen a stretcher stood uptight and twisted 90 degrees in the galley area of a B737 after coming through the door to get to the stretcher base in the main cabin.
air pig is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 11:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Green Flash
Could a re-worked Sentinal airframe or two do the job?
Probably not without a substantial rework.
The door sill is too high and narrow for most stretchers.

Not to say it couldn't be done with enough £££

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 12:22
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,913
Received 2,836 Likes on 1,211 Posts
What surprises me is
https://www.key.aero/article/raf-ada...3s-medical-use

According to the service, the aircraft – serials ZE707 (c/n E2188) and ZE708 (c/n E2211) – were “adapted to carry medical patients in record time and at no cost,” being able to “transport critically ill patients and RAF medical staff for the first time.” The project was conducted through the air arm’s Astra programme, which aims to encourage innovation across the RAF.
This has been an amazing achievement in all areas bringing together [No 32 (TR) [b]Squadron’s] residual capacity, [TMW’s] aeromedical evacuation (aeromed) capability and the design, production and engineering skills of [the] Joint Air Delivery Test [and] Evaluation Unit
This project embodies the very spirit of Astra, using existing military aircraft in a dual-hatted role and optimising use of key defence assets. TMW have never delivered aeromed on the BAe 146 in this manner before and it has been achieved at zero cost and in record time by smart use of pre-existing, available assets,” Bland added.
The engineering work was conducted by the JADTEU at RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire. Within a fortnight of receiving the task, the unit had designed and produced a serviceable solution which then entered a prototype phase. The service states that the trials “determined the adaptations were suitable” for all forms of aeromed missions, including for use by the service’s Critical Care Air Support Team.
but it was particularly gratifying in this instance to be able to design, test and manufacture a solution
So this has been designed, prototypes made, tested and produced, then finished articles, produced and tested... all at NO COST? so they made them out of thin air? designed them without any input, tested them without any input and certified them all again with NO COST?? someones living in cloud cuckoo land....
NutLoose is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 13:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
NutLoose,
More research confirms that the two CC3 aircraft were built and certificated as 146 QCs. (cf #13).
The play on words - 'no cost', could be seen as no additional (external) cost above a new role for which the aircraft is suited to undertake as a multi role, quick change aircraft..
The headline medical role could represent the in-house adaptation (JADTEU) of existing medical cabin modules used in other, older, aircraft types, by fitting the equipment onto self contained, quick-change pallets, opposed to requiring cabin refits on other aircraft.

Thus 'cost' is no more than a normal adaption and change of operational roles, for which the aircraft is ideal. Bean counters might play with offset cost-saving on other types, or increased productivity in their roles - more tanker capability, (or aircraft for HRH / Government use).
safetypee is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 16:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by ivor toolbox
Probably not without a substantial rework.
The door sill is too high and narrow for most stretchers.

Not to say it couldn't be done with enough £££

Ttfn
There are commercially available stretcher hoists or ramps available for aircraft C604 or Global Express size. Aeromedical stretchers are about 2 feet wide, they are built for utility not comfort. The big problem the civilian industry faces is the repatriation of the obese in terms of strtcher load bearing capability, aircraft loading strategies and aircraft size, all have health safety and cost implications.
air pig is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 08:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by air pig
Try loading a LJ35A with a stretcher sometime, now that is interesting.
Or a 45!

Even better...a re role to normal passenger ops and back again!

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 08:11
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by air pig
There are commercially available stretcher hoists or ramps available for aircraft C604 or Global Express size. Aeromedical stretchers are about 2 feet wide, they are built for utility not comfort. The big problem the civilian industry faces is the repatriation of the obese in terms of strtcher load bearing capability, aircraft loading strategies and aircraft size, all have health safety and cost implications.
I know, and what wonderful contraptions they are,
take up much space in the cabin if installed as a cabin mod in aeroplane ( the door retains its airstair) , or you have to provide it to the aerodrome handling agency...God forbid they ever buy their own.

Company I used to work for operated 2 Learjets in med fit. One 45, one 35A

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 08:57
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
you have to provide it to the aerodrome handling agency...God forbid they ever buy their own
in Europe, in the Civ world, outside of major hubs and certain tourist destinations (Geneva, Grenoble, Malaga... Palma?) ambulance flights are so rare as to render it not worth providing support equipment or training to FBO staff.

In the US, FBOs are a bit better stocked in my experience, but even then there can be significant gaps in knowledge.

In my limited dealings with mil repatriations, they expect you to have your own kit and do your own thing anyway - perhaps this is how the mil works.
thetimesreader84 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 09:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by ivor toolbox
I know, and what wonderful contraptions they are,
take up much space in the cabin if installed as a cabin mod in aeroplane ( the door retains its airstair) , or you have to provide it to the aerodrome handling agency...God forbid they ever buy their own.

Company I used to work for operated 2 Learjets in med fit. One 45, one 35A

Ttfn
Was your company UK based and recently stopped operations?
air pig is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 10:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by air pig
Was your company UK based and recently stopped operations?
That particular company never had a 35a, they had 2/3 LR-45s.

I’m not sure what company Ivor Toolbox is referring to.
thetimesreader84 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by thetimesreader84
That particular company never had a 35a, they had 2/3 LR-45s.

I’m not sure what company Ivor Toolbox is referring to.
Indeed it did, there was a Bristol based company but as far as I know it never had jets. The only company that had two Lj35As was AirMed at Oxford who went under about four years ago.
air pig is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 22:34
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 4DME
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 10 Posts
Learjet 35s are now on the German register and based at Birmingham.
N707ZS is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 22:55
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by N707ZS
Learjet 35s are now on the German register and based at Birmingham.
They are indeed as I work on them as a flight nurse.
air pig is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.