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HS780 Andover C1/E3

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HS780 Andover C1/E3

Old 4th Jun 2020, 00:19
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HS780 Andover C1/E3

How many Navs did the Andover carry, as standard?
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 05:58
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
How many Navs did the Andover carry, as standard?
One. In the flight checking role there was also an Air Electronics Officer. All first-class guys with either brevet.

And they did buy the beers occasionally. 🤓
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 07:16
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Question

I don't know. Why would it require more than one?
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 08:04
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With a stated crew of 2-3 - presumably pilot, co-pilot and loady - possibly no nav at all? Perhaps the Open Skies aircraft may have carried a dedicated Nav?
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 09:20
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I thought that back in the days of 46 Squadron most RAF transports had two navs, and I wondered whether the aircraft had two Nav seats.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 09:29
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As Brevet says, at least for the mighty 115 operations, very happy days working on the best squadron (with the best boss) in the RAF by far (IMHO)
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 10:21
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I'm wondering if the AEO occupied what had once been the second nav's position?

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Old 4th Jun 2020, 10:27
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46 Sqn - Abingdon Era


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Old 4th Jun 2020, 10:32
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I'm wondering if the AEO occupied what had once been the second nav's position?
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...over-XS639.pdf

To No. 115 Squadron, RAF Brize Norton, Oxon operating all the E.3/E3A aircraft as part of No. 90 Group.
Painted in a high visibility scheme of white and light aircraft grey with signal red cheatline, engines, wingtips and tail unit. Operated transport tasks in addition to calibration duties.

XS639 was one of three E3A ‘hack’ aircraft used by the Squadron in a variety of roles, primarily transport of passengers and freight. Though not fitted with specialist radar equipment, the E3A could be used as a passive radar target.

They were identical to the C.1 though with the addition of an extra crew position alongside the navigator.......
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 10:40
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Hey Longer Ron,

That looks like two pilots, a nav, an eng and a loadie?
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:03
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Hi Jacko
I would not like to be drawn on the crew make up.(I cannot see the Half Wings clearly enough)
AFAIK - they did have 2x NCO Navs as late as Thorney Island.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:15
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This 46 sqn 1971 route flight with cargo to Malta/Cyprus has a crew of 2 x Pilots,2 x Navs and 2 x Loadies.
I guess the crew make up might have varied quite a bit depending on tasking.


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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:25
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The standard crew of an E3 was 4; 2 pilots, a Nav and an AEO. There was no ALM but the AEOs carried out the duties of Freight Bay Management. I think they were qualified to carry up to 12 pax. If more pax were carried either a second AEO would be carried or an ALM sourced from the OCU or Staneval would help out. The E3As without the IRFIS fitted still had the second nav station fitted.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:56
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46 Squadron

What a nasty-looking crowd in the newspaper article; would one, for example, buy a used motor car from one in particular? As for a Squadron Commander with a double-barreled name.......? An appropriate post, since it is their time of the year.

No NCO Navigators at Thorney on 46, albeit that one may have moved from Abingdon as an instructor with the Training Squadron. Standard crew one of each, that's four for the innumetate.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 12:02
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In my short time in the RAF (65-73, Herc' nav from 67 ) all transport aircraft had only ONE nav, apart from checks, training and in the case of the Herc', gyro/grid sorties over the pole.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 12:04
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See Terry Boothby (RIP) there, served with him as a Reservist about 30 years ago! Was an LM in his regular days (Brits and '10's also I think).
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 12:52
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We had three C2s (HS748) and one C1 (HS780) at Northolt on 32 Squadron. Crews for both types were two pilots, one navigator and one loadmaster. I never saw or heard of a second navigator but there was a crew seat in that forward compartment for the loady as he wasn't allowed to sit with the "guests" for take-off and landing.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:51
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So what was the difference between the E3 and the E3A (no IRFIS on the E3A, right?), and between the E3A and a basic C1?

How many C1(PR)s were there? Both the 60 Squadron aircraft, I guess?
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 15:08
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Some blasts from the (distant) past in those pictures. Mark Gilson and David Crwys-Williams to name but two. In post #8, Dave Higgs. OC Ops Thorney Island 1970-72
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 15:15
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Is Gp. Capt. W. J. Knowles still around with M.E Leggett & Co Ltd?

I would like to join a scheme that will double my money in nine years.
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