BA to RAF
All very amusing I'm sure and may I join in congratulating everyone as well on such an excellent wheeze, but is that it? Why is my claim that RAF cabin crew are just as much aircrew as their civilian counterparts so risible? I would hope that all RAF aircrew that operate with cabin crew at least view them as fully integrated members of the crew and would have no objections to acknowledging them as aircrew should the RAF deem them to be so. Might I suggest that objection to that, raised here and in other threads, is one of semantics? Existing RAF aircrew who wear their appropriate 'brevets' (frankly my damn I don't give a dear!) with understandable pride have had to pass demanding courses in order to do so. Again understandably they object to the thought that cabin crew might share that nomenclature without having to pass such courses. The trouble is that the term aircrew is a generic term meaning simply those who are trained to crew an aircraft, including its cabin crew! Perhaps the term Flight Crew (or whatever) could be applied to those who have passed the aforementioned courses to differentiate them from aircrew who have not? I'm not much interested in badges (despite attempts to portray me as fixated by them), all I ask is that RAF cabin crew be acknowledged as aircrew and not as a flying ground trade as they are now.
Thread Starter
Chugalug: As the starter of this thread, I am dismayed that it has strayed significantly from its original topic - you have made your point several times on other threads, without (again) hijacking yet another one for your particular hobby horse. I reserve the right, as the thread starter, to pull the whole thread if this persists. Enough. Take it elsewhere
Chugalug: As the starter of this thread, I am dismayed that it has strayed significantly from its original topic - you have made your point several times on other threads, without (again) hijacking yet another one for your particular hobby horse. I reserve the right, as the thread starter, to pull the whole thread if this persists. Enough. Take it elsewhere
EX BA Cabin Crew
Indeed you may TT, and your call of course. I would quibble with your contention of my posts being pure thread drift though. If the proposed redundancies in BA and many other airlines come to fruition (and pray God they don't!) then it won't be only pilots that will be knocking on the RAF's doors. Any cabin crew minded to do so at least need to know the present official non-aircrew status of RAF Cabin Crew. Forewarned as they say....
That's what the RAF needs, a few ex BA CSDs to knock them into shape. Make the SWO look like a pussycat.
YS
How is it the RAF finds itself so short of aircrew that it needs to offer inducements to mercenaries airline mates temporarily out to grass due to COVID-19?
Anyway, back to the sport of service arguments:
Is it the Kokkinelli or the Kebab that Darkens the Stool? ?
A question as yet to be satisfactorily answered after some 17 years.....
Anyway, back to the sport of service arguments:
Is it the Kokkinelli or the Kebab that Darkens the Stool? ?
A question as yet to be satisfactorily answered after some 17 years.....
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A mercenary:
"An individual primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics."
Pretty much all of those currently considering rejoining the RAF will be taking a very considerable pay cut. Quite possibly leaving many of them in a similar position to if they simply took redundancy. (The offer is one or the other!)
You and others may well laugh, but from my discussions, whilst unexpected, some simply wish to serve, rather than sit on their arse. How does that make their ethics questionable?
I imagine none will worry too much about anything written in this place!
I generally thought a lot about your prolific postings BEagle. But that was pretty dumb language.
"An individual primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics."
Pretty much all of those currently considering rejoining the RAF will be taking a very considerable pay cut. Quite possibly leaving many of them in a similar position to if they simply took redundancy. (The offer is one or the other!)
You and others may well laugh, but from my discussions, whilst unexpected, some simply wish to serve, rather than sit on their arse. How does that make their ethics questionable?
I imagine none will worry too much about anything written in this place!
I generally thought a lot about your prolific postings BEagle. But that was pretty dumb language.
Last edited by 4468; 25th May 2020 at 01:55.
(edited)...
Pretty much all of those currently considering rejoining the RAF will be taking a very considerable pay cut. Quite possibly leaving many of them in a similar position to if they simply took redundancy. (The offer is one or the other!)...
I imagine none will worry too much about anything written in this place...
Pretty much all of those currently considering rejoining the RAF will be taking a very considerable pay cut. Quite possibly leaving many of them in a similar position to if they simply took redundancy. (The offer is one or the other!)...
I imagine none will worry too much about anything written in this place...
. You mention "the offer". Whose offer is that? MOD's? BA's? BACC's? BALPA's? My concern is that if only ex RAF pilots are being sought (quite reasonably), would that be only from BA or from commercial aviation in general? Do they have to be BACC members, BALPA members, or neither? In other words is this a cosy stitch up or a transparent use of public money?As to things written here being of little interest outside, I would politely but firmly have to disagree.
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If, and it's still a big if I guess, the RAF/MOD is interested in filling its pilot gaps albeit on a temporary basis, surely it will want to do so from as large a pool of recently left pilots as possible? That way it gets the best bang for its bucks (which are scarce enough as we all know). If this scheme is limited to those in one company alone then surely that would not be the case? If BA, the BACC, BALPA even, are not interested in casting the net wider then surely the RAF should be? Unless of course vested interests are at stake, as so often has sadly been the case in this Forum's threads....
Jesus christ.
Any pilot (or indeed any branch or trade) that has recently left can, on their own, approach the RAF about rejoining. And they can discuss length of contract etc, etc. There is a successful cell processing these people already.
Any pilot (or indeed any branch or trade) that has recently left can, on their own, approach the RAF about rejoining. And they can discuss length of contract etc, etc. There is a successful cell processing these people already.
As to the mechanism, it is good to know that a cell exists for dealing with individual applications to rejoin (thank you downsizer). I'm confused therefore why BA pilots should not be processed in the same way? Why should the RAF contemplate a special arrangement with one particular company, unless of course that company is offering a deal that is more advantageous to the Service. Is it?
If this scheme gets recently left pilots ahead of any poor bugger that is waiting to get in a cockpit, then the RAF should rightly be given a kicking.
The “local acting temporary rejoiners” should go to the back of the queue*, not leap-frog it to the front.
*which may be very short...
The “local acting temporary rejoiners” should go to the back of the queue*, not leap-frog it to the front.
*which may be very short...
If this scheme gets recently left pilots ahead of any poor bugger that is waiting to get in a cockpit, then the RAF should rightly be given a kicking.
The “local acting temporary rejoiners” should go to the back of the queue*, not leap-frog it to the front.
*which may be very short...
The “local acting temporary rejoiners” should go to the back of the queue*, not leap-frog it to the front.
*which may be very short...
UK MFTS on or off the rails?
The result is a shortage of pilots going through the OCUs of certain fleets. As to who exactly should be given the kicking you call for, I'll leave that to others better informed than I, but given past precedence I wouldn't hold your breath, ATG! There isn't a queue of fully qualified pilots ready to join the squadrons, that's the problem. This scheme could ameliorate that problem until there is a queue again. That will take some time...
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The usual reasons for leaving are either to continue flying rather than what the RAF might have in mind for you or perhaps simply the pay and conditions. Covid 19 has driven a bus through all such considerations and many would be grateful for any job now, especially in a familiar environment. Temporary it may be but that would at least be a reprieve from any redundancy or complete company collapse that many will be facing.
As to the mechanism, it is good to know that a cell exists for dealing with individual applications to rejoin (thank you downsizer). I'm confused therefore why BA pilots should not be processed in the same way? Why should the RAF contemplate a special arrangement with one particular company, unless of course that company is offering a deal that is more advantageous to the Service. Is it?
As to the mechanism, it is good to know that a cell exists for dealing with individual applications to rejoin (thank you downsizer). I'm confused therefore why BA pilots should not be processed in the same way? Why should the RAF contemplate a special arrangement with one particular company, unless of course that company is offering a deal that is more advantageous to the Service. Is it?
Why do you suggest that BA pilots would be treated in any other way? The RAF (and indeed the other services) will decide who they deem to be suitable and if they want them. There is no right to join/rejoin the service, nor is there any mechanism other than the system the RAF already use. The only difference is that suddenly the RAF has access to a pool of available pilots who two months ago were not available. The RAF has a pilot shortage, and now has a way of filling some of those vacancies, anyone who rejoins may or may not stay very long but it allows the RAF to close a temporary gap until their own training system can sort itself out and provide the numbers the service needs. The system the RAF use is open to anyone who wishes to avail themselves of it, whatever airline or company they currently work for. This is a win win but some just see conspiracy, some people are never happy,
JT, I suggest that BA pilots are being treated in a different way because media coverage suggests that only BA/BACC is devising a scheme to temporarily detach pilots to RAF service while retaining existing company seniority and having their existing jobs to return to when their detachments end. None of that is likely to be on offer to the pilots of other companies and such pilots would be applying on an individual basis and having to quit their present employment on the basis that it won't be available for much longer anyway. I don't suggest that such pilots could be dealt with by the proposed BA system but rather that BA pilots be dealt with in the same way as the pilots from any other airline, ie on an individual basis. When it is time to leave RAF service then all such pilots can apply to their previous employers or indeed others for a job. Let us hope that by then such employment is available again.
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JT, I suggest that BA pilots are being treated in a different way because media coverage suggests that only BA/BACC is devising a scheme to temporarily detach pilots to RAF service while retaining existing company seniority and having their existing jobs to return to when their detachments end. None of that is likely to be on offer to the pilots of other companies and such pilots would be applying on an individual basis and having to quit their present employment on the basis that it won't be available for much longer anyway. I don't suggest that such pilots could be dealt with by the proposed BA system but rather that BA pilots be dealt with in the same way as the pilots from any other airline, ie on an individual basis. When it is time to leave RAF service then all such pilots can apply to their previous employers or indeed others for a job. Let us hope that by then such employment is available again.