Bolivian air force crash
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Horrible........ RIP 
10 ft entry height - what could possibly go wrong?
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Scary but do-able,I should think; until the roll stopped. I know that is obvious. Question is; why stop the roll? All my aeros were/are done above 3000 agl, so would not attempt to answer my own question.
They would have been confident of the outcome going in. Ray Hanna did most if not all his rolling going up hill (always exceptions I know). Did that give him a big margin for error? It kept him alive.
RIP
Looks to me as if they were attempting an aileron roll with an upward vector - but ran out of aileron authority as the airspeed rapidly decreased. Distinct adverse yaw in the initial stages of the roll would have increased drag considerably.
No room to escape from that.
😟
No room to escape from that.
😟
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I suspect he stopped the roll in a panicked attempt to pull the other way, far too late.
Unlikely to be g-loc, nowhere near enough G nor for nowhere near long enough imo. He might have done better to have pulled up more.
I reckon someone forgot that when starting a barrel roll from wings level half the height of the roll will be above the starting level and half below it.
An aileron roll or even a properly executed slow roll is hazardous enough at that insane level, but stands vastly more of chance of working than a barrel roll. In any case those manoeuvres should never have been attempted without a significant up-line being established before commencing as islandlad pointed out above.
Unlikely to be g-loc, nowhere near enough G nor for nowhere near long enough imo. He might have done better to have pulled up more.
I reckon someone forgot that when starting a barrel roll from wings level half the height of the roll will be above the starting level and half below it.
An aileron roll or even a properly executed slow roll is hazardous enough at that insane level, but stands vastly more of chance of working than a barrel roll. In any case those manoeuvres should never have been attempted without a significant up-line being established before commencing as islandlad pointed out above.
I suspect they did it on the spur of the moment - carried away by seeing all their mates out there
People often smirk on here about all the planning and pre-briefing required these days for fly-bys but that clip shows just why you should do it..................
People often smirk on here about all the planning and pre-briefing required these days for fly-bys but that clip shows just why you should do it..................
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People often smirk on here about all the planning and pre-briefing required these days for fly-bys but that clip shows just why you should do it..................
They were within feet of taking people's heads off with the wheels. Would that have stopped them in future, if they had got away with it.
I wonder how many other examples of this are on those phones?
All a sad outcome. If only someone had stepped in to short circuit it in advance.
Salute!
The problem goes back to two things:
1) Prior planning prevents piss poor performance
2) A lack of disciplne or whatever about shining your ass unless you have done it a hundred times and the boss hasn't grounded you yet. There's established demo routines with associated practice and final approval. In other words, no improvising. (having trouble getting my message across, but it will come to me)
Back in the day, when the Earth was still cooling and Orville had just cleared me to solo, one of our new trainees decided to buzz his nearby grandparents. They got to see him attempt a roll and then prang. So for the next few months we were not allowed to fly solo missions unless in a formation. So that's why I had so many formation rides on the docket.
Make no mistake. I did wild and crazy things as a clueless yute. But I am sure there are young folks today that stretch their envelope more than the plane's envelope.
The video should be mandatory viewing for all training courses, IMHO.
We can talk about technique and control inputs and such, but the video seems to show my point "1" above.
Gums opines...
The problem goes back to two things:
1) Prior planning prevents piss poor performance
2) A lack of disciplne or whatever about shining your ass unless you have done it a hundred times and the boss hasn't grounded you yet. There's established demo routines with associated practice and final approval. In other words, no improvising. (having trouble getting my message across, but it will come to me)
Back in the day, when the Earth was still cooling and Orville had just cleared me to solo, one of our new trainees decided to buzz his nearby grandparents. They got to see him attempt a roll and then prang. So for the next few months we were not allowed to fly solo missions unless in a formation. So that's why I had so many formation rides on the docket.
Make no mistake. I did wild and crazy things as a clueless yute. But I am sure there are young folks today that stretch their envelope more than the plane's envelope.
The video should be mandatory viewing for all training courses, IMHO.
We can talk about technique and control inputs and such, but the video seems to show my point "1" above.
Gums opines...
Last edited by gums; 27th Mar 2020 at 01:40. Reason: clarification
Avoid imitations
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Time and time again we've seen how dangerous a badly flown low level roll can be - sadly, this was just history repeating itself.
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sadly, this was just history repeating itself.
Was there a strong cross wind from the left? I have no idea but could that hinder the second part creating a tail wind and changing the dynamics of what could have been 'got away with' before? They were flying north, parallel to the runway orientation and partially sheltered, if the wind was strong.
That hurt to watch, as a former flight instructor. 
As the roll began I thought to myself "roll rate is kind of low"
and the next thought was
"how many times did he practice this at a higher altitude?"
because it seemed to me that the back end showed a case of 'disoriented pilot'
As the roll began I thought to myself "roll rate is kind of low"
and the next thought was
"how many times did he practice this at a higher altitude?"
because it seemed to me that the back end showed a case of 'disoriented pilot'
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Question: it looks to me like some right rudder is applied just before the aircraft starts to roll left - the nose yaws right. I know you are supposed to add top rudder approaching knife edge in a roll but would applying it that early in the manoeuver add a fair bit of drag? Adverse yaw?