Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF to MPN

Old 28th Jan 2020, 09:45
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,091
RAF to MPN

In the light of the new second commercial service to the Falklands see|:_

Falklands - Second Commercial Route

Anyone know if the RAF flights will stop taking civilians from Brize?
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 08:18
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 62
I have to ask, you seem hell bent on opening threads......... that ..... are basically fishing for people to say a little....... too much.
If it’s not in the magazines....... and papers you scour perhaps make a friend...... or two, and ask by PM.
Have you ever been ....... military?
Countdown begins is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 08:51
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,091
No - it 's not a secret surely? The FI Tourist Board have/had links for tourists on to how to book RAF flights from Brize for at least 10 years - times, dates, gate to arrive at, paperwork etc. Some people on here assume that if it's painted grey it's a secret like Ultra.

A mate of mine is planning a trip this fall (well spring down there) and I was trying to help - I was last down there before they'd finalized the Second Flight

FYI not military but I am bound by the Official Secrets Act on certain work
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 11:07
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Some people on here assume that if it's painted grey it's a secret like Ultra.
That's the only safe assumption for anyone with privileged access. If your ‘mate’ wants to book a flight there are well publicised ways of doing so and there is no need to seek ‘inside’ information here. You do not get to decide for yourself which military information is and is not classified - if you had any type of security clearance you would know that.
Video Mixdown is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 11:40
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 1,053
Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
That's the only safe assumption for anyone with privileged access. If your ‘mate’ wants to book a flight there are well publicised ways of doing so and there is no need to seek ‘inside’ information here. You do not get to decide for yourself which military information is and is not classified - if you had any type of security clearance you would know that.
Oddly enough, someone, and at times it was me, does decide what information is classified. I have seen 'intentionally blank' pages classified! Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.
​​​
beardy is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 12:16
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,091
Sorry Video I cannot see how a service which has been publically offered for well over 10 years on a twice weekly basis can be thought to be "secret" by any normal definition of the word. The flights are well known, a lot of people on here have taken them. They appear in guides such as the OAG monthly worldwide flight guides that anyone can buy and which travel agents subscribe to across the world. You can (or could) book them over the Internet or through your travel agent.

The Argentinians know all about them

The "inside information" was are they still selling tickets to civilians......................
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 12:44
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,267
Connsidering it's a civillian flight operated by a contractor (albeit on behalf of the MOD) and is the only direct link to the UK, the chances of it stopping taking civillians are unlikely.
Davef68 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:12
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 665
You can go down there for a marathon now...
Only £5,200...
Nige321 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:15
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by beardy View Post
Oddly enough, someone, and at times it was me, does decide what information is classified. I have seen 'intentionally blank' pages classified! Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.
​​​

Good post (except all three services are just as guilty), couldn't agree more.
golfbananajam is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:36
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 14
Does this still happen on arrival at MPH, it was always a welcome sight...........it meant you were nearly there and could get off the god***ed trike.



Last edited by golfbananajam; 29th Jan 2020 at 13:37. Reason: pics posted in mid sentence - issue sorted out
golfbananajam is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 16:55
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,504
And for those visiting that would like to buy a little getaway from it all....erm..... ok a rather large getaway, Pebble Island is up for sale, all 26,747 acres, and it does not mention Argentinians need not apply either..

https://www.privateislandsonline.com.../pebble-island
NutLoose is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 20:35
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Sorry Video I cannot see how a service which has been publically offered for well over 10 years on a twice weekly basis can be thought to be "secret" by any normal definition of the word. The flights are well known, a lot of people on here have taken them. They appear in guides such as the OAG monthly worldwide flight guides that anyone can buy and which travel agents subscribe to across the world. You can (or could) book them over the Internet or through your travel agent.

The Argentinians know all about them

The "inside information" was are they still selling tickets to civilians......................
.............. I think you may have the safe here, pal.......
If it isn’t on the Internet......... or in the papers...... it..... may not be a national secret ...... but it doesn’t mean it NEEDS to be provided in a plate to everyone, some who would love to have their homework........ handed to .......... them.
stop bleating about the OSA and apply some common sense.
....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Countdown begins is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2020, 09:07
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,091
FYI I understand the AIr Bridge is still taking civilian passengers for the foreseeable future

also see https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...assenger-info/
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2020, 22:17
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Age: 77
Posts: 51
Countdown begins, what is the significance of all the dots used in your post? It makes for disjointed reading.
kkbuk is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:03
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Age: 63
Posts: 301
Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.
​​​
Eons ago at RAF Stanley we had a very impressive book classified 'SECRET UK EYES A' and 'AIRCREW EYES ONLY'. It contained - amongst other things which were indeed properly classified - a recce guide to Argentinian air assets that still bore the page references of its source. (Date) Flight International (page) along with the suitably exotic red over-stamp top and bottom. I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!"
Fortissimo is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 13:42
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,271
In relation to Pebble and the opportunity to
establish high end tourism
Can't see that happening unless the weather has improved a bit since I went there. The penguins stink aswell!

There were still bits of Pucara lying around when I walked the airstrip 20 years ago (18 years after the war)
Wycombe is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 14:37
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,091
There's been quite an uptick in cruises going to Stanley - not sure how many of the make it much further. An islander told me that a cruise ship brings in £ 15 per passenger but a someone who comes and spends a week there is worth over £ 1400................

https://falklandshelicopterservices.com/ is charging £349 per person (minimum of two passengers). to go to Volunteer Point and back so there is clearly a market of well heeled tourists............

Last edited by Asturias56; 4th Feb 2020 at 10:55.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 22:34
  #18 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,646
I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!"
As a general rule that is true as it gave credibility to a public source. 'We know they know we know, but do they know we know they know?'

We once had an open source Russian document that accurately set out the detail on our sensitive acoustic sensors one of which was never talked about outside secure rooms.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 07:58
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,036
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
As a general rule that is true as it gave credibility to a public source. 'We know they know we know, but do they know we know they know?'

We once had an open source Russian document that accurately set out the detail on our sensitive acoustic sensors one of which was never talked about outside secure rooms.
For anyone interested in learning more about the use of “open sources” I recommend:

Spying on the Bomb by Jeffrey T. Richelson
  • ISBN: 978-0-393-32982-7
YS

Yellow Sun is online now  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 19:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,504
Originally Posted by Fortissimo View Post
Eons ago at RAF Stanley we had a very impressive book classified 'SECRET UK EYES A' and 'AIRCREW EYES ONLY'. It contained - amongst other things which were indeed properly classified - a recce guide to Argentinian air assets that still bore the page references of its source. (Date) Flight International (page) along with the suitably exotic red over-stamp top and bottom. I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!"
i remember a similar tale when the F-4 Phantom came out, flight sent a couple of guys to look around the factory, one was the cutaway artist, afterwards the cutaway artist and the guy sat down and working from their visit and what the knew off its components produced a reasonable cutaway drawing which was published in flight, they were then visited by men in dark suits and glasses asking who had provided them with the secret drawings to produce the drawing, they told them it was all a guestimate based on panel lines etc..... Following on many moons later the artist revisited McDonnell and was pleased to see a blown up picture of his drawing being used in the spares department as reference. Such was the guestimates accuracy.

Last edited by NutLoose; 5th Feb 2020 at 19:49.
NutLoose is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.