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Good news if you're gay and were kicked out because of it (UK).

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Good news if you're gay and were kicked out because of it (UK).

Old 22nd Jan 2020, 14:20
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Good news if you're gay and were kicked out because of it (UK).

If you lost any medals because of it, you are about to get them reinstated.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-51203327
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 14:34
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"They cut it [the medal] off my chest with a big pair of scissors."

Disgraceful way to treat a serviceman or servicewoman. It makes me feel ashamed for my country and the forces that I served in. I'm just a normal guy, not LGBT in any way but to think we were doing this sort of thing to our service personnel as late as 1993....... I don't know what to say.

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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 15:11
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Would people thrown out lose pension entitlement they'd accrued?

CG
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 15:57
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Its a weird world we live in that something such as a colleague who was LGBT brought out the worst in people.

I hope that they are treated with parity and all rights they lost are reinstated such as lost pension, lost pay and honourable discharges all around.

Last edited by heights good; 22nd Jan 2020 at 16:07.
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 15:59
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Psst Vendee, “I'm just a normal guy, not LGBT in any way “. They think they are normal as well. I make no comment!
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 16:07
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Originally Posted by Capt Scribble View Post
Psst Vendee, “I'm just a normal guy, not LGBT in any way “. They think they are normal as well. I make no comment!
You did make comment.

I fully understand what you meant and it could cause offence, but people view the world through their own eyes. What you and I see as normal can be very different, neither opinion is wrong per se, just different based on context.

There was no malice meant in the comment, lets not descend into a melee of playground back and forth.
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 16:16
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Originally Posted by Vendee View Post
"They cut it [the medal] off my chest with a big pair of scissors."

Disgraceful way to treat a serviceman or servicewoman. It makes me feel ashamed for my country and the forces that I served in. I'm just a normal guy, not LGBT in any way but to think we were doing this sort of thing to our service personnel as late as 1993....... I don't know what to say.
It certainly looks like the BBC are saying it for you, observing that they ran virtually the same story at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50720216 o 10 December.

Jack
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 18:15
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I am aware that people are more enlightened these days, but they joined up at the time knowing the rules and they chose to ignore them.

I do recall a case where someone straight had their career put on hold because a gay colleague had made a pass at him and he did not report it (someone else did report him and he told the SIB about everyone he'd tried it on with). The investigations went on for some time before he could go back to his normal life. It wasn't all one sided.
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 19:13
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During 28 years in the RAF, I never knowingly encountered a gay person. Or so I thought. There must have been several that I wasn't aware of. So what?
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 19:30
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I think "so what" is the correct response here. I think also a sense of celebration that a wrong is being put right.
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Old 22nd Jan 2020, 23:31
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Wasn't the thinking at the time you could be a security risk if discovered by the other side and blackmailed? The fact that if the RAF knew it would negate that problem was lost on them.

Not that way inclined myself but I thought it was totally wrong to discriminate that way....

BUT it did have the odd advantage I know of one guy who was straighter than a beam of [email protected] light who announced he was gay so he could take advantage of leaving the RAF without paying to buy himself out.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 00:02
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Wasn't the thinking at the time you could be a security risk if discovered by the other side and blackmailed
The Alan Turing case is indicative of thinking at the time. Turing was prosecuted in 1952 for homosexual acts; the Labouchere Amendment of 1885 had mandated that "gross indecency" was a criminal offence in the UK. He accepted chemical castration treatment, with Diethylstilbestrol, as an alternative to prison. In 2009, following an Internet campaign, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown made an official public apology on behalf of the British government for "the appalling way he was treated". Queen Elizabeth II granted Turing a posthumous pardon in 2013. The Alan Turing law is now an informal term for a 2017 law in the United Kingdom that retroactively pardoned men cautioned or convicted under historical legislation that outlawed homosexual acts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 00:45
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The US Military has evolved its attitudes on this from considering it a Mortal Sin (Dishonorable Discharge with possible Prison Time) to allowing open behavior that does not run afoul of the "fraternization regulation).

We have had some rather serious security failures by LGBT persons but none due to blackmail that have made the newspapers.




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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 03:13
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Originally Posted by Capt Scribble View Post
Psst Vendee, “I'm just a normal guy, not LGBT in any way “. They think they are normal as well. I make no comment!
"Normal" isn't really the right word to use here.
To be short sighted or to be over 6 feet tall or to be left handed is not normal. But in each case, it IS ordinary.
To be gay is about as common as being left handed; not "normal" but definitely ordinary.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 05:30
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I am left handed and really couldn’t care less about someone’s sexual orientation - but get concerned about the constant bending over backwards to be seen to be open and welcoming to LGBTQ+ individuals. It has gone too far.

The UK Armed Forces are about the use of violence to change behaviour - not attending Pride events and splashing it all over Soldier/RAF/Navy News.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 06:55
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What happened to individuals, who whilst undergoing additional vetting, told their vetting officer they were gay? Was this one of the occasions when the “catholic confessional” clause was broken and the vetting officer reported, in clear, the reasons or did they just fail their vetting, with no reason given, and the individual was posted to less sensitive duties?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 07:50
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
We have had some rather serious security failures by LGBT persons but none due to blackmail that have made the newspapers.
More or less than those attributed to 'straight' personnel?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 11:18
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To be short sighted or to be over 6 feet tall or to be left handed is not normal.
As someone who is over 6ft tall & short-sighted I resent that accusation!!

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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 12:38
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Originally Posted by Wrathmonk View Post
What happened to individuals, who whilst undergoing additional vetting, told their vetting officer they were gay? Was this one of the occasions when the “catholic confessional” clause was broken and the vetting officer reported, in clear, the reasons or did they just fail their vetting, with no reason given, and the individual was posted to less sensitive duties?
When I first went through DV before joining up I was told by the ex-copper doing my interview that in the bad old days they used that as a final filter. That people who admitted to being gay then found themselves failing to gain the clearance and subsequently couldn't serve.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 12:46
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To be short sighted or to be over 6 feet tall or to be left handed is not normal.
As someone who is over 6ft tall & short-sighted I resent that accusation!!

As someone who is over 6ft tall, short-sighted AND left-handed, I really resent that accusation!!

Amused by the posters feeling the need to spell out the fact they they themselves aren't gay. I guess old prejudices die hard.
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