Election Defence Debate
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Down South
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Climate change is becoming a defence issue as well. Currently (some) wars are fought over oil. The wars of the future will be over lithium and cobalt.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It’s astonishing that some here are taken in by Labour’s Christmas pantomime of being interested in defence. After a career spent pouring abuse and contempt for the armed forces and heaping praise on those who would murder them, suddenly Corbyn is the soldiers friend?? When he was accusing our armed forces in NI of atrocities and praising the “bombs and bullets of the IRA” he at least did so with genuine conviction. Now he’s just a two-faced low-life.
Last edited by ShotOne; 30th Nov 2019 at 08:45.
I think most people just believe that the other parties are no better - it wasn't Labour who brought in the 1956 Sandy's, were planning to auction off the carriers in 1981 cuts or the 2010 SDSR was it?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although both sides blame each other, they are both to blame. VERY rarely do massive changes happen within a 4 yr cycle, most of the time when defence, economics and numerous other things happen over 10-25 yrs.
This means ALL sides are to blame in some way.
They are ALL as bad as each other.
They are all self-serving.
They all feather their own nests
They all keep (net) taxes high
They all remove liberties
They all waste money
They all blame the other shift
They all fundamentally make no real differences to the country
Just my opinion....
"They all keep (net) taxes high" - TBH taxes in the UK have fallen dramatically since 1979 - that's the problem - the spending on pensions, the NHS, schools stays high but the money isn't there so we see the gradual collapse of infrastructure and services
heights good,
You have spouted this nonsense before. It is a cheap list of cliched tired reductionism, last time you said "I cannot be proved wrong," now you say just your opinion...
Have you ever met an MP?
They do NOT all feather their own nests.
They are NOT all self serving.
They do NOT all keep (net) taxes high.
They do NOT all remove liberties.
And if they all fundamentally make no real difference to the country, what is your beef?
Whilst not being particularly enamoured of the current choice for PM, I have met and worked with a good number of MP's across the political spectrum. Almost without exception they came into politics NOT to feather their own nests but to make a difference, each according to their own particular political dogma. They could all make far more money elsewhere, they could all see far more of their families if they worked elsewhere, they could all do without the vitriol and abuse they suffer on social media and in the street if they worked elsewhere.
Your tired cliched view of politicians does you no favours, or have you swallowed a Daily Mail whole?
You have spouted this nonsense before. It is a cheap list of cliched tired reductionism, last time you said "I cannot be proved wrong," now you say just your opinion...
Have you ever met an MP?
They do NOT all feather their own nests.
They are NOT all self serving.
They do NOT all keep (net) taxes high.
They do NOT all remove liberties.
And if they all fundamentally make no real difference to the country, what is your beef?
Whilst not being particularly enamoured of the current choice for PM, I have met and worked with a good number of MP's across the political spectrum. Almost without exception they came into politics NOT to feather their own nests but to make a difference, each according to their own particular political dogma. They could all make far more money elsewhere, they could all see far more of their families if they worked elsewhere, they could all do without the vitriol and abuse they suffer on social media and in the street if they worked elsewhere.
Your tired cliched view of politicians does you no favours, or have you swallowed a Daily Mail whole?
Last edited by pr00ne; 3rd Dec 2019 at 09:22.
When you talk about spending, spending (excluding defence) has generally risen above inflation. What it has not done is maintained ever increasing year on year real-term rises. So it's not that budgets are cut, it's that they don't rise in line with historical demand. The real issue is that demand for health and social care and pensions is essentially unconstrained - something than can never be met with realistic levels of taxation and also something that no polly will willingly admit, because it leads to a debate that the public in general won't like. ie If you want x, y, z services, you Joe Public (and not A.N Other aka "the rich") will have to pay for it. Or you constrain what is provided by the public purse - and that doesn't mean stop Johnny Foreigner from accessing those services, because that wouldn't dent the demand.
I think N_a_B the percentage of Public Expenditure spent by the Govt is much the same but individual taxes have gone down .
https://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/uk...e_tax_analysis shows income taxes are pretty much at post 1945 lows
But you are right about the demand pull on services - no Govt seems capable of facing down the pensioners, the teachers and the NHS
https://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/uk...e_tax_analysis shows income taxes are pretty much at post 1945 lows
But you are right about the demand pull on services - no Govt seems capable of facing down the pensioners, the teachers and the NHS
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
heights good,
You have spouted this nonsense before. It is a cheap list of cliched tired reductionism, last time you said "I cannot be proved wrong," now you say just your opinion...
Have you ever met an MP?
They do NOT all feather their own nests.
They are NOT all self serving.
They do NOT all keep (net) taxes high.
They do NOT all remove liberties.
And if they all fundamentally make no real difference to the country, what is your beef?
Whilst not being particularly enamoured of the current choice for PM, I have met and worked with a good number of MP's across the political spectrum. Almost without exception they came into politics NOT to feather their own nests but to make a difference, each according to their own particular political dogma. They could all make far more money elsewhere, they could all see far more of their families if they worked elsewhere, they could all do without the vitriol and abuse they suffer on social media and in the street if they worked elsewhere.
Your tired cliched view of politicians does you no favours, or have you swallowed a Daily Mail whole?
You have spouted this nonsense before. It is a cheap list of cliched tired reductionism, last time you said "I cannot be proved wrong," now you say just your opinion...
Have you ever met an MP?
They do NOT all feather their own nests.
They are NOT all self serving.
They do NOT all keep (net) taxes high.
They do NOT all remove liberties.
And if they all fundamentally make no real difference to the country, what is your beef?
Whilst not being particularly enamoured of the current choice for PM, I have met and worked with a good number of MP's across the political spectrum. Almost without exception they came into politics NOT to feather their own nests but to make a difference, each according to their own particular political dogma. They could all make far more money elsewhere, they could all see far more of their families if they worked elsewhere, they could all do without the vitriol and abuse they suffer on social media and in the street if they worked elsewhere.
Your tired cliched view of politicians does you no favours, or have you swallowed a Daily Mail whole?
to answer your question, yes I have met several politicians and this is exactly why I have the opinions I have.
I have met 3 Prime Ministers, 3 Defence Secretary's, 2 Chancellors, 2 Armed Forces Minister and numerous others over the past almost 2 decades. My uncle is also an SNP councilor and has been for 40 yrs. Every single one was insincere, avoided answering questions or in some cases were on the verge of complete incompetence. In the case of my uncle he is too lazy to get a real job but is paid well for doing very little. He has also talked himself into numerous positions which come with many perks and bonuses. He has no degree, no experience of the real world and has never worked a real job in his life.
whilst I am in violent agreement that most get into politics for noble reasons, politics is not a game that allows nobility to flourish. Politics is a dark underworld with rules that require making deals with the devil if you want to succeed. It is very much a case of adapt or die.
As for hard working, this does not mean efficiency of output or indeed, integrity. Many people work hard including criminals. Talking of which, how many politicians have criminal records or should have? Remember all those honest, hard-working politicians who spent time completing their expenses claims? Or the 11% pay rise when public servants were on a pay freeze? Or allow the financial corruption to flourish which led to the 2008 crash? Starting a war with Iraq by making up evidence? Resurrecting claims of murder against servicemen after almost 50 yrs despite a £200m public enquiry exonerating them? Equipping the armed forces with sub-standard equipment as it is British? This list is in no way exhaustive.
I do not have any political affiliation or read any newspapers.
If you don't agree then that is okay.
"He has also talked himself into numerous positions which come with many perks and bonuses. He has no degree, no experience of the real world and has never worked a real job in his life"
I can see why you are a bit bitter................
I can see why you are a bit bitter................
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He has not shaped my opinion anywhere near as much as the bigger 'real' politicians who have frankly, astounded me with their lack of any discernible talent other than waffling, believing their own words and avoiding saying anything of substance.
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Down South
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I object to politicians entering politics without ever having worked a real job.
They are the politicians that, when elected, eventually end up in government and make policy that is out of touch most of the electorate. They know this, so in order to balance it out, they throw in "gimmes," that they know is attractive to the naive, they also know the country couldn't afford them, but hey, £250 billion in investment in a single area sounds amazing, when you know the square root of **** all about how economies work.
They are the politicians that, when elected, eventually end up in government and make policy that is out of touch most of the electorate. They know this, so in order to balance it out, they throw in "gimmes," that they know is attractive to the naive, they also know the country couldn't afford them, but hey, £250 billion in investment in a single area sounds amazing, when you know the square root of **** all about how economies work.
"I object to politicians entering politics without ever having worked a real job."
In the UK that used to be the case up to around 1985 - then the people who had jobs in Law or The City (Tories) or the Trade Unions or factories (Labour) were hounded out by people and the press complaining about "2 -jobs MP's", "Part timers taking our cash", "Unprofessional amateurs" etc etc and by the early 90's the route to government was with a Politics degree, time spent in a think tank, gophering for a Minister etc etc
So be careful what you wish for....................
In the UK that used to be the case up to around 1985 - then the people who had jobs in Law or The City (Tories) or the Trade Unions or factories (Labour) were hounded out by people and the press complaining about "2 -jobs MP's", "Part timers taking our cash", "Unprofessional amateurs" etc etc and by the early 90's the route to government was with a Politics degree, time spent in a think tank, gophering for a Minister etc etc
So be careful what you wish for....................
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Down South
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I object to politicians entering politics without ever having worked a real job."
In the UK that used to be the case up to around 1985 - then the people who had jobs in Law or The City (Tories) or the Trade Unions or factories (Labour) were hounded out by people and the press complaining about "2 -jobs MP's", "Part timers taking our cash", "Unprofessional amateurs" etc etc and by the early 90's the route to government was with a Politics degree, time spent in a think tank, gophering for a Minister etc etc
So be careful what you wish for....................
In the UK that used to be the case up to around 1985 - then the people who had jobs in Law or The City (Tories) or the Trade Unions or factories (Labour) were hounded out by people and the press complaining about "2 -jobs MP's", "Part timers taking our cash", "Unprofessional amateurs" etc etc and by the early 90's the route to government was with a Politics degree, time spent in a think tank, gophering for a Minister etc etc
So be careful what you wish for....................
We also need far more veterans in Parliament. I love the work Johnny Mercer is doing. I also fully support Ben Goodwin's endeavours, even though I disagree with him on almost everything. We need more veterans on those benches.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,064
Received 2,934 Likes
on
1,250 Posts
i then still cannot get over Corbyn going on about pumping extra billions into Scotland to improve the economy, industry, infrastructure etc, then giving them a vote to leave afterwards... That reminds me of the RAF building swimming pools resurfacing roads etc then shutting the place.
