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RN vs RM

Old 20th Oct 2019, 14:34
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RN vs RM

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Old 20th Oct 2019, 15:40
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Sounds like a good idea to me - always daft to have 2x “Captain” ranks within the Naval Service...
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 15:42
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First they came for the Royal Marines......
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 15:55
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I hope not.
Two of the most dangerous things in the military:
1. A naval officer with a map.
2. A matelot with a gun.
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 16:57
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What a totally pointless and unnecessary 'consultation'!

RM must continue to maintain their traditional ranks - as must the RN. There would be no point whatsoever in forcing fish-head ranks upon the Royals.
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Old 20th Oct 2019, 20:05
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Sounds like the thin end of a wedge. The Canadians did it years ago, and have now changed back.
Here comes the British Armed Forces...…..
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 00:35
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A good idea. It will generate a lot of savings in rank insignia.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 06:19
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An idea generated by the RM, and discussed openly in the RN Command Plan.

move along, nothing to see here...
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 10:45
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Amalgamating ranks with what passes for a Navy - I don't think so ! Upon reading this twaddle I almost regurgitated my pink gin. Apart from a desirable amphibious capability, the Bootnecks were constituted as a ship borne force c. 1664 to prevent the lower deck from fastening their claws around the throats of the upper deck.

During these times, living conditions on the lower deck fostered discontent which went hand in hand with incitement to mutiny which augered not at all well for the health of the upper deck eg. the ships officers. As a former member of No. 40 Commando, we should be looking at ways to distance the Marines from the influence of our current 'snowflake' Navy. What exactly is the gain from this proposal? Do we want an erosion of identity of our best military formation ?
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 10:57
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Cant see what the point of all of this, looks like change for change sake to me. Nobody is confused by the present system (with the possible exception of Lima Juliet ) Just a load of extra work changing over uniforms, having new insignia sewn on etc.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 11:49
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Originally Posted by alfred_the_great View Post
An idea generated by the RM, and discussed openly in the RN Command Plan.

move along, nothing to see here...
Perhaps Alfred would be kind enough to elaborate? There's some more info here https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new...-royal-3448142 and such a common rank structure already exists in the Netherlands, and probably other countries. Presumably it could even be part of a cunning plan to circumvent any form of amalgamation with any other Service......

Jack
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 14:15
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The RM are part of the Royal Navy. Therefore, why shouldn’t they have the same rank insignia as the rest of the RN? A bit like the RAF Regiment are a part of the RAF and have the same (mostly) Rank structure as the rest of the RAF.

And it’s not a “plot”. It’s in the OS version of the RN Command Plan (pg40), which is helpfully found on the front page of the RN MoDNet.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 15:14
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By what stretch of the imagination are the Marines part of the Navy ? The Marines are first and foremost soldiers whose transport into battle is usually but not solely the responsibility of the Navy. Both services share the same disciplinary code and there the mix of identity ends.

My opinion is that our Marines would be much better administered under Army command - as it used to be - altho' briefly, certainly for the Commando's.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 15:30
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
By what stretch of the imagination are the Marines part of the Navy ? The Marines are first and foremost soldiers whose transport into battle is usually but not solely the responsibility of the Navy. Both services share the same disciplinary code and there the mix of identity ends.

My opinion is that our Marines would be much better administered under Army command - as it used to be - altho' briefly, certainly for the Commando's.
A - We (the RN) pay for them.
B - They’ve always been a part of the RN. They (until the HERRICK years) were routinely part of Ship’s Company’s, and pre-Commandos, were integrated into the Ship (IIRC Y Turret was always the RM’s).
C - We have an Army. Given A applies, why should the RN pay for anything to do with the Commandos? We pay for 29 and 24 BTW.
D - If they are simply “soldiers from the sea”, see C.

Fortunately the Corps has some pretty switched on Officers who understand that C (in particular) is a huge risk for them. So they are adapting (as ever) and demonstrating to the RN that they are worth paying for, and they bring something different that 1 LOAMS. Part of that is by following the Dutch model of having their Officers use Naval Rank insignia - to demonstrate they are Naval, not mildly lost pongos.

I imagine the next step will be to put a fair amount of RM at sea, permanently, QE already has a dedicated Coy Gp from 42 Cdo - they’re probably the first step in the right direction.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 17:11
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Do RM officers still go 'up' a rank when they are onboard one of Her Maj's war canoes (i.e. a RM Captain has the onboard seniority of a RN Lt Cdr) or was that an urban myth? And if so, are they acting local paid (or unpaid) and do they wear the insignia of their elevated rank?
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 17:38
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Originally Posted by Wrathmonk View Post
Do RM officers still go 'up' a rank when they are onboard one of Her Maj's war canoes (i.e. a RM Captain has the onboard seniority of a RN Lt Cdr) or was that an urban myth? And if so, are they acting local paid (or unpaid) and do they wear the insignia of their elevated rank?
nope.

aligned with NATO ranks.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 18:25
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Ta. Everyday a school day.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 20:22
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Batco jnr is a RM Captain. He tells me that officer ranks and insignia are destined to change to those of RN, while RM ORs will retain 'military' rank and insignia.

Regards
Batco
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 20:34
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The Navy pays for nothing, it is the British taxpayer who picks up the tab - as with everything. There has always been a perception, probably exercised by both factions, of the differences between shipboard marines and the Commandos and the SBS.

The Commandos and the SBS being 'real' soldiers down among the dirt, with the big ship marines being responsible for bags of swank, big bands and bullshine. As for the description: "soldiers from the sea", during WW1 the marines role as light infantry was recognised in the title of Royal Marines Light Infantry and it was in this capacity that they maintained that role until early in WW2 when they were incorporated into some of the first Commando formations.

The eclipse of big ships from the British Navy meant that ship marines no longer had much of a home. That fact accompanied by the success of the Commandos in various 'brush wars' and post colonial skirmishes switched any remaining emphasis away from the bullshine bootnecks and ensured that a confident future lay ahead for the 'khaki' element of the Corp. If any element is required for service on the flat tops, I'm sure it will be those wearing the green beret and they'll serve with distinction much as they did on the former Commando carriers; Bulwark and Centaur.
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Old 21st Oct 2019, 21:17
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during WW1 the marines role as light infantry was recognised in the title of Royal Marines Light Infantry and it was in this capacity that they maintained that role until early in WW2 when they were incorporated into some of the first Commando formations

Only if the Great War started in 1855.
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