Defence under a Corbyn Government
Pax, wipe the spittle from your mouth! The PM doesn’t ‘lie every time he opens his mouth’, that’s just the cheap accusation thrown at him by rabid remainers & Mirror journos, and is clearly nonsense. As for ‘lying to the Queen’ he took legal advice which was then countermanded by a different bunch of lawyers, hardly a deliberate porky to her Majesty.
And as for allying himself to Trump, I think you’ll find the UK has been allied to the USA for considerably longer than Boris has been PM.
I find it hard to believe that any sane person is prepared to treat Corbyn as a reasonable politician and prospective PM for this country. Beneath that mild mannered exterior bats the heart of a raving Communist who, given the keys to No 10, will effect a Marxist revolution on this country. Some/ massive cuts to the armed forces will be the least of our problems. At the last election the Communist Party polled lower than the Monster Raving Loonys, now they’ve hijacked the Labour Party and like the Trojan Horse if they can just get inside the walls the country will fall.
Bojo is an opportunist who would sell anything to get what he wants, always has and always will. One has not sold on their principles, one has never had any principles and sell out to whomever, every chance he gets.
Just had a bottle of wine and a revelation came to me; under a Corbyn Government and the scrapping of Trident, etc means more money for the troops! Go on strike for a 50 % pay rise and t&c’s like Tube workers. A Labour government could be the best thing that happened for the armed forces! Best not to ask how the defence of the Realm pans out though.
Mass migration has ensured in any war that armed forces will be spending time here not abroad.
Looking at the Armistice Day events a very substantial proportion of the modern armed forces in the Uk seem to be sourced from relatively recent immigrant communities Racedo.
Not many officers (yet) but I guess it's another case of immigrants doing the hard jobs that Brits no longer seem to want to do.
Not many officers (yet) but I guess it's another case of immigrants doing the hard jobs that Brits no longer seem to want to do.
Asturias
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...hnic-diversity
According to the reasonably recent article linked above, the UK Armed Forces currently have approximately 7.56% of their number of minority ethnic backgrounds.
Maybe what you saw at Armistice Day was a slight over representation in terms of ethnic minorities. In the same way that virtually every advert I see on any social media platform would have you believe that the military are currently only interested in female recruits.
Public demonstrations of the gender and ethnically diverse nature of our military are grasped at every opportunity. I don’t think you can then use that as a stick to beat people with in this particular thread.
Our military is still largely made up of young (and old!), white men. I am not saying that is right or wrong but it is a fact.
BV
According to the reasonably recent article linked above, the UK Armed Forces currently have approximately 7.56% of their number of minority ethnic backgrounds.
Maybe what you saw at Armistice Day was a slight over representation in terms of ethnic minorities. In the same way that virtually every advert I see on any social media platform would have you believe that the military are currently only interested in female recruits.
Public demonstrations of the gender and ethnically diverse nature of our military are grasped at every opportunity. I don’t think you can then use that as a stick to beat people with in this particular thread.
Our military is still largely made up of young (and old!), white men. I am not saying that is right or wrong but it is a fact.
BV
Just published...
• Our Armed Forces personnel received below-inflation pay rises for seven years.
The security challenges we face know no borders.
Labour will increase funding for UN peacekeeping operations to £100 million.
We will maintain our commitment to NATO and our close relationship with our European partners, and we will use our influence at the United Nations to support peace and security worldwide.
Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent.
Labour will also actively lead multilateral efforts under our obligations to the Non-Proliferation Treaty to create a nuclear-free world.
Labour’s commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defence will guarantee that our armed forces are versatile and capable of fulfilling the full range of roles and obligations.
We will scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms
pay cut for our armed forces, ensure decent housing for forces members and their families, and guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools.
We will consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation.
Labour will improve opportunities for veterans through access to lifelong learning and training, housing and mental and physical health services, and will seek greater consistency in the implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant by public authorities.
We will pay a lump sum of £50,000 to each surviving British nuclear-test veteran to support them and their families with the health conditions they have suffered as a result of exposure to radiation.
We will also ensure that black and Asian soldiers who fought in Britain’s colonial armies receive a full apology and explore ways to compensate them for the discriminatory demob payments they received compared to their white counterparts serving at the same rank in the same regiments.
The UK defence industry is world- leading and Labour will continue to work with manufacturers, unions and export partners in line with Labour’s foreign policy to support innovation
in this sector to ensure it maintains its highly skilled workforce and world- class apprenticeship programme.
We are committed to procurement that supports UK defence manufacturing including our aerospace and shipbuilding, alongside a vibrant supply chain that includes the British steel industry and other component manufacturing companies providing good jobs throughout supply chains.
Labour will publish a Defence Industrial Strategy White Paper, including a National Shipbuilding Strategy, that keeps all Royal Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary shipbuilding contracts in the
An incoming Labour government will undertake a Strategic Defence and Security Review to assess
the security challenges facing Britain, including new forms of hybrid, cyber and remote warfare.
This review will also take account of the climate emergency, and associated threats of resource competition, involuntary migration and violent conflict.
Under the Conservatives:Boris Johnson refuses to publish the report into possible foreign interference by Russia in UK democracy.
Trained army personnel have been cut from 102,000 to just over 74,000.
Armed forces and their families have been forced to live in sub-standard accommodation.
Failing outsourced contracts have not been terminated.
the security challenges facing Britain, including new forms of hybrid, cyber and remote warfare.
This review will also take account of the climate emergency, and associated threats of resource competition, involuntary migration and violent conflict.
Under the Conservatives:Boris Johnson refuses to publish the report into possible foreign interference by Russia in UK democracy.
Trained army personnel have been cut from 102,000 to just over 74,000.
Armed forces and their families have been forced to live in sub-standard accommodation.
Failing outsourced contracts have not been terminated.
• Our Armed Forces personnel received below-inflation pay rises for seven years.
The security challenges we face know no borders.
Labour will increase funding for UN peacekeeping operations to £100 million.
We will maintain our commitment to NATO and our close relationship with our European partners, and we will use our influence at the United Nations to support peace and security worldwide.
Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent.
Labour will also actively lead multilateral efforts under our obligations to the Non-Proliferation Treaty to create a nuclear-free world.
Labour’s commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defence will guarantee that our armed forces are versatile and capable of fulfilling the full range of roles and obligations.
We will scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms
pay cut for our armed forces, ensure decent housing for forces members and their families, and guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools.
We will consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation.
Labour will improve opportunities for veterans through access to lifelong learning and training, housing and mental and physical health services, and will seek greater consistency in the implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant by public authorities.
We will pay a lump sum of £50,000 to each surviving British nuclear-test veteran to support them and their families with the health conditions they have suffered as a result of exposure to radiation.
We will also ensure that black and Asian soldiers who fought in Britain’s colonial armies receive a full apology and explore ways to compensate them for the discriminatory demob payments they received compared to their white counterparts serving at the same rank in the same regiments.
The UK defence industry is world- leading and Labour will continue to work with manufacturers, unions and export partners in line with Labour’s foreign policy to support innovation
in this sector to ensure it maintains its highly skilled workforce and world- class apprenticeship programme.
We are committed to procurement that supports UK defence manufacturing including our aerospace and shipbuilding, alongside a vibrant supply chain that includes the British steel industry and other component manufacturing companies providing good jobs throughout supply chains.
Labour will publish a Defence Industrial Strategy White Paper, including a National Shipbuilding Strategy, that keeps all Royal Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary shipbuilding contracts in the
UK, to secure a long-term future for the industry and its workers.
Reducing our carbon footprint can
only happen with ambitious emissions reduction targets at the Ministry of Defence, one of government’s biggest energy users.
So as part of our Green Industrial Revolution, we will create a Climate Change Sustainability Committee within the department to review the feasibility of increasing the use of sustainable energy in defence, and publish a strategy to accelerate the safe and sustainable recycling of our old nuclear submarines.
Reducing our carbon footprint can
only happen with ambitious emissions reduction targets at the Ministry of Defence, one of government’s biggest energy users.
So as part of our Green Industrial Revolution, we will create a Climate Change Sustainability Committee within the department to review the feasibility of increasing the use of sustainable energy in defence, and publish a strategy to accelerate the safe and sustainable recycling of our old nuclear submarines.
BV. Your point on adverts for recruitment being female biased is noted and is understood. However, at the risk of being trolled....look at current Christmas adverts. They suggest there are no 'straight white families' left. Nonetheless they are still more entertaining than the mainstream meejah.
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The Labour manifesto seems to tick a number of boxes although remaining in NATO & renewing Trident are both counter to Corbyn’s beliefs which he is sometimes (on these pages) praised for sticking to so resolutely. It’s all preceded by ‘we will hold a SDSR’ so they might just ‘inadvertently’ discover that most of the armed forces aren’t needed so can actually be scrapped including Trident.
Besides, what they publish in their manifesto & would actually do in government are not necessarily the same thing (as with all governments).
Besides, what they publish in their manifesto & would actually do in government are not necessarily the same thing (as with all governments).
Commitment to spending at least 2% of GDP on defence, which beats the current mob who can only manage 1.8% despite their commitment to 2%. Commitment to scrap the Public Sector Pay Cap, which will mean a pay rise for all in the forces. Immediate 50k payment to all nuclear test veterans, commitment to stay in NATO and to work closely with European partners, commitment to support the UK defence industry and supply chain with ships being built in the UK.
How Marxist!
How Marxist!
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How Marxist
This is after all a man who supported the right-wing military Junta who invaded the Falklands on the basis that they were oppposed to Thatcher (‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’), the IRA against the British Army & was very active in the ‘Stop the War’ Coalition - do you really think that he will be a friend to the Armed Forces? Even if you get a 5% pay rise that will be more than cancelled by the rise in taxes. As the IFS has made clear, he can’t just Tax the top 5% to achieve his aims even if the wealthy didn’t depart the UK on 13 Dec.
And the rest of the manifesto? Mass renationalisations, asset stealing of company shares, right to buy rental property at 80% of market value, confiscation of inheritances - that’s pretty Marxist.
Thread Starter
I'm sorry pr00ne, I just can't see it. Especially with Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot, Thawnberry and Butler in charge, I do not see the above manifesto pledge as one which can be taken at face value. There are already hidden hints which might not bode well. Climate change sustainability committee? I'll bet the Armed Forces staff will find their helpful advice most advantageous. Further, the amount of money they are going to spend everywhere else means we're headed for a massive economic crash again.
FB
FB
Looking at the Armistice Day events a very substantial proportion of the modern armed forces in the Uk seem to be sourced from relatively recent immigrant communities Racedo.
Not many officers (yet) but I guess it's another case of immigrants doing the hard jobs that Brits no longer seem to want to do.
Not many officers (yet) but I guess it's another case of immigrants doing the hard jobs that Brits no longer seem to want to do.
If a war started next week and Govt indicated conscription on Jan 1, how many would just disappear.
The problem is that the UK military do not have a convincing war scenario of any kind, so Corbyn is rightfully skeptical of their planning.
Europe has an aging and declining population, as does Russia, so there is little conflict potential there. China is trying to secure its borders while coopting its neighbors with their $8 trillion Belt and Road initiative, they will not change the rules while they are doing so well.
That leaves the poor and wretched in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, whose principal weapon is their children, desperately pressing to get into the rich enclaves.
Those problems don't have military solutions, as the US and others are discovering. Until there is a more coherent plan to deal with the world as is, as opposed to trying to recreate the cold war, the military will continue to get marginalized.
Europe has an aging and declining population, as does Russia, so there is little conflict potential there. China is trying to secure its borders while coopting its neighbors with their $8 trillion Belt and Road initiative, they will not change the rules while they are doing so well.
That leaves the poor and wretched in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, whose principal weapon is their children, desperately pressing to get into the rich enclaves.
Those problems don't have military solutions, as the US and others are discovering. Until there is a more coherent plan to deal with the world as is, as opposed to trying to recreate the cold war, the military will continue to get marginalized.
The Manifesto says 5% for public sector workers - doesn't say if the armed forces are included but does say the pay cap will be lifted.
"Our most valuable assets are the dedicated people who work in our public services, but under this government their pay has been cut in real terms. Labour will restore public sector pay to at least pre-financial crisis levels (in real terms), by delivering year-on-year above-inflation pay rises, starting with a 5% increase, to reward and retain the people who do so much for us all"
"Armed forces and their families have been forced to live in sub-standard accommodation.• Failing outsourced contracts have not been terminated.Our Armed Forces personnel received below-inflation pay rises for seven years"
"Labour’s commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defence will guarantee that our armed forces are versatile and capable of fulfilling the full range of roles and obligations. We will scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms pay cut for our armed forces, ensure decent housing for forces members and their families, and guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools. We will consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation. Labour will improve opportunities for veterans through access to lifelong learning and training, housing and mental and physical health services, and will seek greater consistency in the implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant by public authorities"
"Our most valuable assets are the dedicated people who work in our public services, but under this government their pay has been cut in real terms. Labour will restore public sector pay to at least pre-financial crisis levels (in real terms), by delivering year-on-year above-inflation pay rises, starting with a 5% increase, to reward and retain the people who do so much for us all"
"Armed forces and their families have been forced to live in sub-standard accommodation.• Failing outsourced contracts have not been terminated.Our Armed Forces personnel received below-inflation pay rises for seven years"
"Labour’s commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defence will guarantee that our armed forces are versatile and capable of fulfilling the full range of roles and obligations. We will scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms pay cut for our armed forces, ensure decent housing for forces members and their families, and guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools. We will consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation. Labour will improve opportunities for veterans through access to lifelong learning and training, housing and mental and physical health services, and will seek greater consistency in the implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant by public authorities"
“Labour will give our nurses, teachers, doctors, firefighters, police and others a pay rise to begin to undo the damage caused by the Tories and Lib Dems and reward the people who do so much for us all.”
my mistake, I guess we come under ‘others’.
my mistake, I guess we come under ‘others’.
What would these 'promised' pay rises actually be worth when their mad tax-and-spend policies cause hyper-inflation and massive price rises? I for one will never vote for self-confessed marxists/communists.
well all parties seem to going on a vast spending spree - maybe none of them expect to have to deliver?
As you are all well aware, any party's manifesto/contract will not survive voting day whether elected or not.
I have never felt the urge to debate the merits of such short lived examples of smoke and mirrors.
Fill your boots,,,
IG
I have never felt the urge to debate the merits of such short lived examples of smoke and mirrors.
Fill your boots,,,
IG
The problem is that the UK military do not have a convincing war scenario of any kind, so Corbyn is rightfully skeptical of their planning.
Europe has an aging and declining population, as does Russia, so there is little conflict potential there. China is trying to secure its borders while coopting its neighbors with their $8 trillion Belt and Road initiative, they will not change the rules while they are doing so well.
That leaves the poor and wretched in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, whose principal weapon is their children, desperately pressing to get into the rich enclaves.
Those problems don't have military solutions, as the US and others are discovering. Until there is a more coherent plan to deal with the world as is, as opposed to trying to recreate the cold war, the military will continue to get marginalized.
Europe has an aging and declining population, as does Russia, so there is little conflict potential there. China is trying to secure its borders while coopting its neighbors with their $8 trillion Belt and Road initiative, they will not change the rules while they are doing so well.
That leaves the poor and wretched in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, whose principal weapon is their children, desperately pressing to get into the rich enclaves.
Those problems don't have military solutions, as the US and others are discovering. Until there is a more coherent plan to deal with the world as is, as opposed to trying to recreate the cold war, the military will continue to get marginalized.
US was land of the free and home of the braves until 1492 when someone landed there.
US grew from the work of the landless poor / persecuted people of Europe be it Highland clearances, persecution of Presbetyrians in Ireland who are the Scots Irish who made up the backbone of Washingstons army, followed later by the Irish famine survivors or the various wars and pogroms around Europe. This took place over centuries but now mass media showing what US is supposed like encourage people to leave but media ignores the dead and dying living on the streets in the US.
US is on the verge of collapse as Debt, migration and a divided people fight verbally among themselves, with a desire to oust anybody who doesn't agree with a particular viewpoint, it doesn't take much to move it from it from verbal to a bit more. The swamp are out in force telling the people they decide what elected people should do and at their bidding.
Uk is pretty similar but it kept all the trappings of power to the gilded rich, the poor can live in Grenfell tower and other places.
Media spin one narrative but that comes undone so now they want control.
Politicians need to be brave to stand up for their country, there are few I see capable of this.
Most will think short term and for personal enrichment only, a nigerian friend, well educated family said in Africa the issue always was that leaders sought personal power and wealth because they knew once out of power it could be taken from them. The viewpoint was there was never enough money so they would grab more and more, sadly in 20 odd years I see UK politicians using every means possible to do the same where Salary is not enough so use of expenses and fiddles is the means to enrich onself.