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Red Arrows - worth the effort now?

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Red Arrows - worth the effort now?

Old 13th Aug 2019, 20:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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I was quite surprised that Red 3 this season is a pilot with TUI flying B737 out of Cardiff. 😜
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 21:36
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Saw them last year at Sunderland and I havd to say that after a lacklustre airshow with many aircraft way out to sea the reds display was excellent.
Watching them come in head first, rolling around each other for the Tornado was an amazing sight.
I do though, suspect their future is entirely determined by the life of their Hawks.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 21:41
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DON T View Post
I was quite surprised that Red 3 this season is a pilot with TUI flying B737 out of Cardiff. 😜
Was a pilot for TUI, he retired from the RAF at the end of last season, joined TUI, did a couple of months then returned for this year as Red 3 broke his leg... He'll be back on the ALiccante run in November...
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 12:08
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Avtur View Post
Saw the Red Arrows in Halifax, NS on Sunday at the start of their North American tour. Not the full display, presumably due to the location, but nice to see them nevertheless. Was bemused however by the "support" peeps trying to market RAF engineering (and some bird marketing Wales). Not sure of the purpose behind that. Anyway, I hope they manage to drum up some post Brexit business, and have a safe and successful tour. The cynic in me did wonder how much this tour is costing the UK tax payer, and whether they will get a good return for their "investment", particularly as funding for the front line continues to be limited.
One of the Reds objectives is to promote British industry, so it's probably part of their annual budget from Whitehall as they do take occasional tours in an easterly direction too.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 15:56
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lightbluefootprint View Post
One of the Reds objectives is to promote British industry, so it's probably part of their annual budget from Whitehall as they do take occasional tours in an easterly direction too.
One major, one minor, one 'at home' is the rotation. Majors were/are: Far East 2016, USA/Canada 2019; Minor was Middle East & Pakistan 2017; At Home was RAF 100 2018. Next year should see a 'minor' tour if the pattern follows tradition.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 17:23
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roland Pulfrew View Post
Next year should see a 'minor' tour if the pattern follows tradition.
Greece next year then....
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 23:05
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post


Greece next year then....
Well I laughed!
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 08:14
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Greece next year then....
Well I laughed!
Indeed - although it took a few seconds...
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 09:02
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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[COLOR=left=#000000]Greece next year then.... [/COLOR]
That is awful!!! … and you owe me a keyboard
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 03:51
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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They are still great but Id probably replace them with a typhoon 3 ship....so as a potential recruitment tool, you are actually looking at what you are aspire too.
Would that be cheaper or have I just spent even more ?
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 14:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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...and here we go again with the "Reds to be scrapped" rumours. Isn't it a cyclical story, popping up every 5 years or so?

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/uk-...Bwr9QT4Warcsn8
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 14:18
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Yes, it is a disgrace when people die on ops for lack of good kit and we fund this
None of these things have bearing on lack of kit, the people responsible for making decent kit provision an uphill battle are the treasury. Soldiers, Airmen and Matlos have died in no end of conflicts since well outside of living memory. I think the only time when the finer aspects of military life were suspended was during World War 2, but then nothing at all could be spared. Unless you were assigned to something like the War Office or Air Ministry film crew.

FB
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 14:26
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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For the miserable lot who think the Reds are a waste of time, I hope this picture changes your mind.

If they can inspire the next generation, they've served their purpose. This young lad had his childhood made.

Feet together, Red 9...

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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 15:03
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And in that article it also mentioned the RAF Regt might be for the chop.....and

..."The Paras and Marines could be combined into one unit".....
That's like asking the catholic and protestant churches to merge into one!
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 15:38
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Just junk one of them - keep the RM for choice - they are the senior regiment
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 15:42
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM View Post
For the miserable lot who think the Reds are a waste of time, I hope this picture changes your mind.

If they can inspire the next generation, they've served their purpose. This young lad had his childhood made.

Feet together, Red 9...

Inspiring. But time is not the point being raised, money is.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 15:53
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Originally Posted by beardy View Post
Inspiring. But time is not the point being raised, money is.

If something generates vastly more resources than it uses, wouldn't you say that's a sensible investment?
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 16:20
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Finningley Boy View Post
None of these things have bearing on lack of kit, the people responsible for making decent kit provision an uphill battle are the treasury. Soldiers, Airmen and Matlos have died in no end of conflicts since well outside of living memory. I think the only time when the finer aspects of military life were suspended was during World War 2, but then nothing at all could be spared. Unless you were assigned to something like the War Office or Air Ministry film crew.

FB
Finningley Boy,

Not letting you get away with that!

Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns were funded from Government Reserve plus a plethora of Urgent Operational Requirements that also did not come out of the MoD budget, so any kit issues around body armour, protected vehicles etc are down to the military not thinking they were required or needed or making them available where they were needed and they already existed.

Last edited by pr00ne; 2nd Dec 2019 at 16:35.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 16:58
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM View Post
If something generates vastly more resources than it uses, wouldn't you say that's a sensible investment?
I would possibly depending on their relative values, but it's not what you said.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 18:16
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
[B]

Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns were funded from Government Reserve plus a plethora of Urgent Operational Requirements that also did not come out of the MoD budget,
As ever, matters are not that simple. The immediate funding was provided from outwith MoD, but it could be said the Treasury claw some back every year. It is around 19 years since there's been a real world equipment budget increase; and the next one falls short as well. Plus, there are the 'hidden' cuts, such as the creation of QinetiQ and closure of 3rd line workshops - the former was effectively one of the biggest ever cuts in the equipment budget.

To take one example, at the time Herrick kicked off, the Infantry's flagship programme was costed at over 4Bn and approval granted 2 years previously to proceed. The primary aim was to reduce casualties, in a 3-phase programme ending in 2015. In short order, the budget was chopped to around 700M, and the programme extended and diluted to such a degree it is now unrecognisable.

If you don't ask, you don't get. Far far worse, in the Treasury's eyes, is asking, getting, and then saying you don't want it after spending pots of money. For example, Snatch replacement, cancelled in around 2003 despite the Army having made an exemplary case in the mid-90s that it was FAU and had to be replaced. Same with Nimrod MR2 secure comms. All kit bought and on the shelf, and some genius says we don't want it, and the brand new kit scrapped. That was only about 100M at today's prices, but it all adds up to astronomical waste and missed opportunities. To compensate for the lost funding, we see regular rumours like the Red Arrows being chopped. Better that the Services do the job properly in the first place. (None of what I've said had anything remotely to do with procurers).
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