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Seven and a half years

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Seven and a half years

Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:06
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Seven and a half years

To qualify? And some mealy mouthed politician on the wireless spewing the usual bollocks. Apparently you are developing a world leading training system thanks to private involvement.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:13
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Most of my initial flying course were tidying up their licences with a couple of thousand hours before going on terminal leave taking their 8 year option.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:23
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We trained National Servicemen to fly Meteors in the 1950's.

And got some service time from them.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 12:39
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I was at Wittering recently. The prospective pilots that I spoke to have been holding between 18 months to 2 years post IOT!
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 15:04
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First flight on an operational squadron three weeks short of two years from joining. Still only nineteen years old. Mind you, that was in the sixties.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:32
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Originally Posted by Herod View Post
First flight on an operational squadron three weeks short of two years from joining. Still only nineteen years old. Mind you, that was in the sixties.
Little slower than you but had to do the Lindholm course pre-OCU. The AEOs OTOH had fewer flying hours and I think shorter course so 19 was average.

Echoing the NS training, 5 year commissions were available for pilots.
​​​​​
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 17:48
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Year one..... Shoe lace tying and potty training
Year two..... Advanced tying, the Winsor knot
Year three..... Potty training phase completed,
Year four..... Arifmatic, speling and ACB's twaining

That only leaves three and a half to learn to fly
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 18:47
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R4 20.00 tonight, File on Four, sounds as though it might be relevant.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 19:52
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The stupid thing is these people being "placed" while waiting are sucking up resources, what is the point accepting them in when their courses could be two years away, that's two years of paying someone that might get chopped in the first month or two of training.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:14
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Listening to the Radio 4 Prog it is apparent that MFTS is not fit for purpose. I say this as an ex (A2) QFI.

Having been at Wittering recently, and having talked to Aircrew Stude holdees, they have holds of 18 months to 2 years post IOT and they are still not entering the trg system.

What a complete **** Up!
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:28
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Air Commodore Simon Edwards, RAF flg trg, you sir are a ******* tit if you think the MFTS works and that holds of 18 months to 2 years post Initial Officer Trg prior to EFTS is acceptable.I say this as a retired A2 QFI.

We TOLD you why MFTS wouldn't work.
You should bloody resign!

Don't even get me started on ME flg trg.
Oh and get rid of the facial fuzz.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:51
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Ex Ascoteer, to be fair he has only recently taken responsibility for UK MFTS inheriting decisions made as far back as 2005. As ever, this was poor investigative work by todayís clowns that call themselves Journalists. Just why they needed to drag up the sad death of Alex Parr during a programme about flying training is beyond me. I thought better of Radio 4 but I guess I should have known better.

I would struggle to give this programme a Below-Average grade in aviator parlance...there were so many factual inaccuracies and misleading statements I donít know where to start!
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 20:57
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Originally Posted by The B Word View Post
there were so many factual inaccuracies and misleading statements I donít know where to start!
I was sat with circa 6-8 pre EFT and post EFT holdies and they were all rather glad the absolute shambles is actually out in the open, a lot of what was said in the broadcast has been discussed in the mess for the last few months and itís too far from the truth at all!!!!
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 22:13
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As has been said elsewhere, I think it is indisputable that U.K. flying training is broken, but it is not all the fault of MFTS or the contractors. The widespread adoption of business practices without the resources or knowledge to do them properly, contractorisation pre MFTS and the conflicting requirements of SDSR 10 and 15 are also to blame. At least by sending trainees to the USA and to civil training organisations and by resurrecting the T1 SOMETHING is being done. I just feel sorry for the youngsters suffering.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 02:32
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Originally Posted by The B Word;10407890[left
Ex Ascoteer, to be fair he has only recently taken responsibility for UK MFTS inheriting decisions made as far back as 2005.
Indeed. And he has done **** all about it. Ergo he should resign (or at least **** off)

We had a Flying Train
ing system that was the envy of the world (CFS). Now we have **** all!
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 02:35
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Originally Posted by The B Word;10407890[left
Ex Ascoteer, to be fair he has only recently taken responsibility for UK MFTS inheriting decisions made as far back as 2005.
Indeed. And he has done **** all about it. Ergo he should resign (or at least **** off)

We had a Flying Trainining system that was the envy of the world (CFS). Now we have **** all!

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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:55
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Exascoteer

Again to be fair, according to the ARAL the individual has been in post for 10 months - https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...-appointments/. The MFTS Programme started as far back as 2005 - 14 years. So with your logic, you are trying to sack someone who has been heading it for less than 5% of its lifespan. Also, do you know what changes he has made since his Ďfeet were under the deskí? I suspect you donít.

I donít know anyone who thinks MFTS is going well but making hysterical claims for sacking people is going to help no one. In fact, in the short term it is likely to make things worse with such a change. We either roll up our sleeves and find ways to make it work or walk away (costing ££££s in penalty clauses, plus with nothing to replace MFTS with then ALL training would cease!). Doing nothing, as ever, is not an option. As already reported a number of outsourcing options have been announced in the past 9 months with more rumoured to come, so something is at least being done in parallel to seeking resolutioj to the reported issues (some of which were vastly inaccurate).
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 07:28
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B word - that means that more than 5 senior officers have presided over the MFTS situation since 2005, maybe more, and each appears to have passed the parcel to the next, glad to rid themselves of the poisoned chalice before the dose became fatal. Which of them did anything to prevent this situation?

It was always apparent to those in instructional roles that the plans were flawed but senior careers were being made on the back of them so no-one listened and here we are.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 07:38
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No-one listened to those at the coal face - one of the chief problems with the MFTS farce being a sustainable supply of instructors. Back when training ramped up for the Tornado, the front line was raided to supply ex-QFIs to the UAS / BFTS, allowing their ex-FJ QFIs to return to the front line. There was enough flex in the system to cope in those days.

But now? Not enough QFIs, training aerodromes or training aeroplanes. So much has been cut and so many aerodromes closed (or ear marked for closure) that it would be virtually impossible to ramp up pilot supply if there was an urgent need.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 09:15
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Give the seniors some credit....AOC 22 Trg Gp took the important decision to shorten IOT by 6 weeks in order to speed up the flow of pilots to the cockpit following CAS' direction that he did not want aircraft waiting for pilots. Had he not done that the wait could well have been 7 years and 7 and a bit months rather than 7 years and 6 months so at least some people are alive to the issue.
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