First Female USAF F-16 Demo Team Commander Fired After Two Weeks
A) What evidence have you got for the reason behind her dismissal? The only suggestion of sexual misconduct is in this thread by BVRAAM who is a UK wannabe with not the first idea about things and some ‘friend’ who at the very most might be UK mil. In other words, clueless.
B) Marital infidelity used to be career-limiting and to all intents career-ending for male officers in the UK forces. These days it is all about the effect on unit efficiency, a test which is gender-blind and subject to redress through the Service complaints process. My impression of the USAF is that it is still quite socially conservative. What evidence have you for your assertions about disparity of treatment in the contemporary services besides gender-stereotypical hand-waving ?
B) Marital infidelity used to be career-limiting and to all intents career-ending for male officers in the UK forces. These days it is all about the effect on unit efficiency, a test which is gender-blind and subject to redress through the Service complaints process. My impression of the USAF is that it is still quite socially conservative. What evidence have you for your assertions about disparity of treatment in the contemporary services besides gender-stereotypical hand-waving ?
B. 32 years of military service watching plenty of 'career-limiting/ending' offences swept under the carpet if the person's profile and career trajectory was high. The same 32 years in Officers Messes seeing the continued disparity of treatment for playing away from home. Your impression of the USAF is yours but is in no way more valid than mine.
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- Three years later, the revealed reasons for Capt Zoe Kotnik's removal showed that she suffered for committing exactly the kind of overconfidence in her own leadership that senior commanders admire in their fighter pilots, while firmly counsel-correcting them for minor mistakes. But the Thunderbirds' zero tolerance for any variations in displays other than the briefed manoeuvres, unfortunately (wrongly, in my opinion) doomed a history-making young lady's career. Just reading the USAF's justification broke my heart and made me convinced again that the Z -T is a bad rule if not modified with good judgement. She was sorry for her mistakes (neither of them dangerous) but was not forgiven.
- But what did she do, just two weeks into her job (with a stellar record as a team member and a reputed solo F-16 pilot in the same team) that carried such a harsh punishment?
- She once flew her team safely below the briefed height in a flypast, not an aerobatic manoeuvre. And she once took her formation to supersonic speed, again not a dangerous condition.
- The writer has flown the F-16, flown formation aeros for seven years, trained many pilots on jet fighters, and flown with many USAF pilots for many happy years. Belongs to a different but well-regarded air force.
Last edited by Hektor057; 6th May 2022 at 07:30.
Except that breaking minimum heights and exceeding maximum speeds are the thin end of an overconfidence wedge - if not nipped in the bud, what would have been her next exploration of the rules?
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It's a shame there aren't some terrible and tragic examples out there of what can happen when display pilots and teams don't stick to the plan....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_21st_century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_21st_century
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Except that breaking minimum heights and exceeding maximum speeds are the thin end of an overconfidence wedge - if not nipped in the bud, what would have been her next exploration of the rules?
I may only be an ex-stacker but even I know where that overconfidence wedge can lead. Czar 52 ...
Brief it - Fly it.
Limits are there for reasons, especially in display / formation / aerobatics.
History is full of examples of what goes wrong when you break those limits and many people have died - including "civilians" on the ground.
The Thunderbirds themselves have suffered a number of tragedies as a result of deliberate or inadvertent deviation from SOP / minimums including a horrific formation crash that wiped out the whole flight. (*edit - see comment at bottom of post)
I can understand the USAF having zero tolerance of deliberate deviation. She'd been in the job two weeks and she broke the rules twice!!??
* edit - I stand corrected Gums - I had recalled that there was the suggestion that the lead had entered below the required datum but had not remembered the actual conclusion of the inquiry about the elevator linkage - Sorry!
Limits are there for reasons, especially in display / formation / aerobatics.
History is full of examples of what goes wrong when you break those limits and many people have died - including "civilians" on the ground.
The Thunderbirds themselves have suffered a number of tragedies as a result of deliberate or inadvertent deviation from SOP / minimums including a horrific formation crash that wiped out the whole flight. (*edit - see comment at bottom of post)
I can understand the USAF having zero tolerance of deliberate deviation. She'd been in the job two weeks and she broke the rules twice!!??
* edit - I stand corrected Gums - I had recalled that there was the suggestion that the lead had entered below the required datum but had not remembered the actual conclusion of the inquiry about the elevator linkage - Sorry!
Last edited by OvertHawk; 8th May 2022 at 10:55. Reason: correction
Salute!
I assume Hektor found some new news release about that gal at Shaw's demo team. I haven't seen anything on normal places. So a ref would be nice.
Secondly, the Thunderbird four ship smoking holes were because the lead had debris or broken part in the elevator linkage and was using both hands on stick to no avail... about only criticism was he should have let go with left hand for 2 or 3 seconds and called abort.
I was at a Blues show when the lead went below planned/briefed altitude and they aborted. We thot it was a bit low but also a new maneuver when wingies went left and right and up. He resigned that night or next day cause he felt he was "losing it" and they needed another lead. This was about 9 or 10 years ago at Lakeland Sun and Fun, if memory serves me.
Gums sends...
I assume Hektor found some new news release about that gal at Shaw's demo team. I haven't seen anything on normal places. So a ref would be nice.
Secondly, the Thunderbird four ship smoking holes were because the lead had debris or broken part in the elevator linkage and was using both hands on stick to no avail... about only criticism was he should have let go with left hand for 2 or 3 seconds and called abort.
I was at a Blues show when the lead went below planned/briefed altitude and they aborted. We thot it was a bit low but also a new maneuver when wingies went left and right and up. He resigned that night or next day cause he felt he was "losing it" and they needed another lead. This was about 9 or 10 years ago at Lakeland Sun and Fun, if memory serves me.
Gums sends...
Last edited by gums; 8th May 2022 at 16:09. Reason: grammar?
Brief it - Fly it.
Limits are there for reasons, especially in display / formation / aerobatics.
History is full of examples of what goes wrong when you break those limits and many people have died - including "civilians" on the ground.
The Thunderbirds themselves have suffered a number of tragedies as a result of deliberate or inadvertent deviation from SOP / minimums including a horrific formation crash that wiped out the whole flight.
I can understand the USAF having zero tolerance of deliberate deviation. She'd been in the job two weeks and she broke the rules twice!!??
Limits are there for reasons, especially in display / formation / aerobatics.
History is full of examples of what goes wrong when you break those limits and many people have died - including "civilians" on the ground.
The Thunderbirds themselves have suffered a number of tragedies as a result of deliberate or inadvertent deviation from SOP / minimums including a horrific formation crash that wiped out the whole flight.
I can understand the USAF having zero tolerance of deliberate deviation. She'd been in the job two weeks and she broke the rules twice!!??
