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UK armed forces 'face £7bn equipment funding black hole'

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UK armed forces 'face £7bn equipment funding black hole'

Old 1st Feb 2019, 19:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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It's 7000 million not 700.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 19:46
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Which is v roughly 17 days nhs spending.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 20:35
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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No disrespect...oh, ok, maybe a little bit then...

I think you are all being a tad parochial. It really, really isn't about the defence budget, it is much bigger than that.

A couple of years back it became the official government position to cease any sort of plan to pay down the budget deficit. At that moment, the UK economy defacto became a ponzi scheme.

And how much parliamentary discussion/debate has that attracted over the past two years...the square root of you know what.

No wonder MayBot is outta there as soon as the brexit thing finally staggers over the finish line. Who TF, would want to try and fix the UK economy once it becomes a newsworthy item again.

Edit...Corbyn I guess, because he can go all Venezuelan on our arses and....oh f**k, pass the Single Malt.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 20:52
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Again it is not the treasury - it is the politicians

They (and its the same in every country) promise the earth to get elected and then have to try and make ends meet - this is normally done by taxing people who either can't dodge or by some sort of stealth tax and then on the expenditure side giving cash to the causes that are most likely to get them re-elected - or here to causes whose owners will "help you out" when you need it
Asturias,

I get where youíre coming from - politicians set policy etc. However, Defence is so far down their list of priorities that in reality they donít actually care about Defence. Or small-d Defence for that matter. Other than those in the Ministry of Defence , for whom itís their job and therefore they have to care. Or at least be seen to be caring. However, set against the Treasury, the most powerful organisation in the country, they have limited power and virtually no authority. A plan can be the best one ever, if it doesnít get financial authority, itís going nowhere. The Treasury have questions to answer in this debacle too; they shouldnít be allowed to get off Scot free.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 21:15
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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All of this ignores the fact that we still have the world's fifth largest defence budget yet it is THE world's most mismanaged budget outside of Venezuela...

Last edited by pr00ne; 2nd Feb 2019 at 00:57.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 21:19
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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In what way is it miss managed?
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 23:33
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Or even mismanaged..
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 00:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Out Of Trim View Post
Or even mismanaged..
Lowest bang for the buck in the world when you compare spend to capability.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 04:18
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Just in case dear readers mistake levity, for a lack of homework.

In the absence of offsetting tax rises or spending cuts, this would widen the government’s budget deficit over time and put public sector net debt on an unsustainable upward trajectory.

https://cdn.obr.uk/FSR-July-2018-1.pdf

And in case anybody thinks, this is all just somebody else's problem...coming to a house near you within 5 years (no matter what flavour of politician inhabits no 10):
  • Wealth tax (that would be your house, they is wanting to tax)
  • Regulated Wealth tax avoidance measures (that would be regulating them that would help you avoid such tax).
  • Placing the entire "estate planning" industry inside the FCA (it is currently largely unregulated, in a legislative sense)
Watch. This. Space.

Last edited by The Old Fat One; 2nd Feb 2019 at 04:28.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 04:33
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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OFO - you are such a ray of sunshine...
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 09:50
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I stand to be corrected but haven't UK Governments taxed inherited wealth for the last 100++ years???

Given the usual slippery behaviour of "financial advisers" it's clear that they would come after those who have been "sheltering" wealth to pay taxes that other, less wealthy souls have to pay?

I've heard English colleagues rant about something to do with "self-employment status" tax for years - always sounds like the biggest noises come from those with the most to hide in my experience
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 11:43
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Asturias, yes the UK has but the disproportionate rise in UK property values has the state looking for that money. If you succumb the wrong type of illness the state goes after your property (if you have one) to pay for the non-medical bit of your care.

So a friend of mine who owned her own home had a major stroke caused by an undiagnosed brain tumour. With the projected outcome being life-limiting she was shifted from hospital to full-time care once the tumour was taken care of. The local authority took her home to pay for the 'hotel' part of her care package. Trouble is that 2 years down the line she can now speak normally, has full cognitive ability and can walk a short distance. Her prognosis is now so good that she could be released from care... but she has no home to go to and social housing has a long waiting list.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 12:34
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Lyneham lad,

Unfortunately the Old Fat One is entirely correct. I can't be arsed to read the OBR report but my own sums for some research i was doing on govt budget 2016 recently were:

welfare:240 bn
personal social:30 bn
housing:7bn
total welfare = 277bn

NHS: 145bn
education:102bn
defence 46bn
law&order: 34bn
enviro:27bn
transp:29
ind&ag:24bn
EU:13bn
other stuff:39bn
DEBT INTEREST:39bn
GRAND TOTAL: 772bn

tax collected: 726bn
debt added to the pile (deficit): 56bn.

Ok no problem!!

uk national debt:........

wait for it........

1780bn.

Anyone still think it's not a ponzi scheme??

UK interest rate 0.75%. help to buy etc.... house prices go through the roof. Homeowners actually make no money unless downsizing or moving abroad.

But we'll tax you on your 'profit/wealth' that DOES NOT EXIST to pay that 277 bn promise to people who need your help. Oh and pay the debt interest on loans we have accrued to get elected on our sham promises. And fund th proportion of the NHS which is actually a large, under the radar, care home.

Do you think interest rates will ever go back to 5%? NO - we'll go bankrupt.

Interest rates at 0.75 make you a loss on fixed-income savings after inflation. Or, in other words its gonna be difficult to fund a responsible retirement. But its ok, the government will pay you a pension. We'll just borrow the money for it. And tax homeowners on money they don't have.

Rant over

It was quite cathartic though!!

Last edited by Marly Lite; 2nd Feb 2019 at 12:35. Reason: Misplaced smileys
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 15:29
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Marly Lite View Post
Lyneham lad,

Unfortunately the Old Fat One is entirely correct. I can't be arsed to read the OBR report but my own sums for some research i was doing on govt budget 2016 recently were:

welfare:240 bn
personal social:30 bn
housing:7bn
total welfare = 277bn

NHS: 145bn
education:102bn
defence 46bn
law&order: 34bn
enviro:27bn
transp:29
ind&ag:24bn
EU:13bn
other stuff:39bn
DEBT INTEREST:39bn
GRAND TOTAL: 772bn

tax collected: 726bn
debt added to the pile (deficit): 56bn.

Ok no problem!!

uk national debt:........

wait for it........

1780bn.

Anyone still think it's not a ponzi scheme??

UK interest rate 0.75%. help to buy etc.... house prices go through the roof. Homeowners actually make no money unless downsizing or moving abroad.

But we'll tax you on your 'profit/wealth' that DOES NOT EXIST to pay that 277 bn promise to people who need your help. Oh and pay the debt interest on loans we have accrued to get elected on our sham promises. And fund th proportion of the NHS which is actually a large, under the radar, care home.

Do you think interest rates will ever go back to 5%? NO - we'll go bankrupt.

Interest rates at 0.75 make you a loss on fixed-income savings after inflation. Or, in other words its gonna be difficult to fund a responsible retirement. But its ok, the government will pay you a pension. We'll just borrow the money for it. And tax homeowners on money they don't have.

Rant over

It was quite cathartic though!!
Its worth pointing out that 95% of the welfare bill is the state pension. Currently sat well above historic levels of expenditure compared to GDP. Why exactly are we paying State Old Age Pensioners more and more in terms of GDP per year? Its bleeding the country dry.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 15:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Wellllllllll... economists argue round the clock about the effect of National Debt - some don't think it's important, some think it is - after all as a Sovereign Nation you can always just not pay anyone, or print money to order

One thing is for sure that economics for countries is different to economics for individuals
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 16:36
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Mary Lite, Old Duffer,

Sorry to burst your self contained bubble of doom and gloom but the picture you are desperately trying to portray is false. As Asturias56 points out above, trying to equate Government owned national debt to that of an individual or company is mischievous, misleading and wrong. Who is ever going to call in that debt? As most of it is the Government itself it will never happen. Underlying economy is healthy and only the looming train wreck of Brexit threatens it in any way shape or form. And even then, and I speak as a died in the wool remainer, it will knock mere percentage points off GDP over a period, cause massive distress and heartache to ordinary people, but the underlying economy will survive.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 18:10
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to Burst your bubble Pr00ne but...

The government Only 'owns' about a third of the debt. (BofE). About a third is owned privately and another third is owned by foriegn nations.

If the government were to write off its debt the pound will be extinct as a tradeable asset. THAT is why this is important and THAT is why you are wrong. Claim all you like that government finances are different (to some degree they are -no private bank would lend so much to an individual without collateral) but in the end the Piper gets paid or you go broke. Now, the government CAN print its way out, but that is called HYPERINFLATION. Try Weimar germany in the 30's or Venezuela right now.

Hyperinflation is basically a debt default in disguise. Anyone with 'money' in the bank gets screwed big time. Cyprus a few years ago anyone?

Sorry to be a doom and gloom but this is factual.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 18:15
  #38 (permalink)  
c52
 
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And we OAPs at least spend our money keeping the wheels of the economy turning and paying VAT, unlike billionaires who do little - compared with their wealth - in that regard.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 18:26
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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TOFO. Your #29. Remind me agin why we took the opportunity to leg it out of UK in 2005. Yes, a major factor was Government money-grabbing from what we had earned, saved and invested. Iím not suggesting Jersey is perfect, but at least they do have some respect for personal income and property - and no Inheritance Tax.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 18:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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True c52.

One of the biggest injustices committed in history is the treatment of OAPs. Spend a lifetime in work, have your money 'invested' in National Insurance. Get robbed blind. No pension pot, spend the money on unattainable promises for us all, then get the next generation to foot the bill for the reckless financial misconduct committed by the Gov't (of BOTH flavours).

It would be an interesting calculation to see how wealthy we would be if we had invested the money. I do not have the ability to do this calculation but i would lay a wager that we would be the wealthiest nation on the planet. But instead we zoom towards bankruptcy or hyperinflation. Which is the same thing.
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