Saif Sareea II Report
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Saif Sareea II Report
For those interested, this is a link to the full NAO Saif Sareea II report. It is is pdf format.
NAO Saif Sareea II Report.
NAO Saif Sareea II Report.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, well, well, if this report refutes any allegations that we are struggling to keep up with Team Dubya and claims we are NOT under-funded or ill-equipped, how come in the photo on the front cover of the official NAO report of Execise Saif Sareea II, I noticed the following.....
1. Of the nine individuals in the photograph, five are wearing arctic goggles, including the SK crewman. (Desert sand is far finer than snow and DOES permeate ski goggles)
2. One of the troops on the ground has elected to use a US-pattern bergen cover.
3. His colleague has adapted his roll mat in to a more convenient "concertina" mat.
4. NO ONE is wearing ANY form of respiratory protection.
(5. The photo is obviously posed as a SK would never get airborne with all those people on board
)
And I haven't even read the report yet!
1. Of the nine individuals in the photograph, five are wearing arctic goggles, including the SK crewman. (Desert sand is far finer than snow and DOES permeate ski goggles)
2. One of the troops on the ground has elected to use a US-pattern bergen cover.
3. His colleague has adapted his roll mat in to a more convenient "concertina" mat.
4. NO ONE is wearing ANY form of respiratory protection.
(5. The photo is obviously posed as a SK would never get airborne with all those people on board
)And I haven't even read the report yet!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Section 2.51 and 2.52 of "Lessons learnt/not learnt" make grim reading
To precis: Clothing Gash, Gat doesn't work.........
I wonder how much it costs to produce a document, the Big House will ignore?
On the subject of the photo.....
From left, Rifleman 1 has no BFA (Blank firing adapter) fitted, as far as I can see, he's also wearing proboots, as is Rifleman 4. No helmets in view either. Agreed on Spam Bergan cover, wasn't aware that we had the spammies on exercise.
Conclusion? posed piccie, Marines or SAS/SBS, especially if the Commando chopper can be identified as an SF one..
But it's just a guess...
To precis: Clothing Gash, Gat doesn't work.........
I wonder how much it costs to produce a document, the Big House will ignore?
On the subject of the photo.....
From left, Rifleman 1 has no BFA (Blank firing adapter) fitted, as far as I can see, he's also wearing proboots, as is Rifleman 4. No helmets in view either. Agreed on Spam Bergan cover, wasn't aware that we had the spammies on exercise.
Conclusion? posed piccie, Marines or SAS/SBS, especially if the Commando chopper can be identified as an SF one..
But it's just a guess...
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: London
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple points that I was interested in:
The Warrior AFV did not appear suffer the same problems with dust as the Challenger - did they elect to take their sand filters?
Were there any notes on munitions performance?
On the subject of the picture:
Couldn't identify the boots as Pro Boots. More likely to be standard BCH as most soldiers know that Pro Boots get VERY hot even in temperate conditions.
Tprs 1 and 3 are wearing combat vests, Tpr 4 appears to have a sniper rifle (in carrier) in the top of his bergan.
Lack of helmets probably due to it being a dry fire exercise phase(BFAs fitted). Helmets and CBA are mandatory in live fire training but rules can be relaxed by higher command after risk assessment (heat injuries vs ballistic injuries). Note pers behind Tpr 1wearing helmet but no webbing. It is possible that helmets were only removed while 'out of contact' and would be replaced on resuming operation.
Good point about Arctic goggles. My preference for goggles has always been Oakleys or Bolle Commander. I have had to buy and issue the disposal dust masks (used for DIY) for dusty conditions to my soldiers in past. (Didn't stop us getting bogeys the size of footballs though)
Possible a posed piccie, if I wasn't the chalk comd I would probably look away from the landing/hovering SK. I feel it unlikely to be SF as they would definately have had the desert boots, all identifiable personal weapons are SA80s and they probably wouldn't be seen dead in arctic goggles in the desert. I'd ay they were more likely to be a Bootneck Recce Section.
The Warrior AFV did not appear suffer the same problems with dust as the Challenger - did they elect to take their sand filters?
Were there any notes on munitions performance?
On the subject of the picture:
Couldn't identify the boots as Pro Boots. More likely to be standard BCH as most soldiers know that Pro Boots get VERY hot even in temperate conditions.
Tprs 1 and 3 are wearing combat vests, Tpr 4 appears to have a sniper rifle (in carrier) in the top of his bergan.
Lack of helmets probably due to it being a dry fire exercise phase(BFAs fitted). Helmets and CBA are mandatory in live fire training but rules can be relaxed by higher command after risk assessment (heat injuries vs ballistic injuries). Note pers behind Tpr 1wearing helmet but no webbing. It is possible that helmets were only removed while 'out of contact' and would be replaced on resuming operation.
Good point about Arctic goggles. My preference for goggles has always been Oakleys or Bolle Commander. I have had to buy and issue the disposal dust masks (used for DIY) for dusty conditions to my soldiers in past. (Didn't stop us getting bogeys the size of footballs though)
Possible a posed piccie, if I wasn't the chalk comd I would probably look away from the landing/hovering SK. I feel it unlikely to be SF as they would definately have had the desert boots, all identifiable personal weapons are SA80s and they probably wouldn't be seen dead in arctic goggles in the desert. I'd ay they were more likely to be a Bootneck Recce Section.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually make that six out of nine wearing ski goggles. I missed Trooper; fourth from left, slightly out of view. And there were no US troops involved in the exercise with the possible exception of those on exchange tours, which was my point entirely. The bergen cover in question is now an obsolete pattern so is it unreasonable to suggest out-of-date US kit is favoured over our own?
As for the respiratory protection, even a shemagh would have been better than breathing in calcified camel $hit! Looks awfully dashing too when donned correctly!
As for the respiratory protection, even a shemagh would have been better than breathing in calcified camel $hit! Looks awfully dashing too when donned correctly!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Auditors of Arabia...
Good report - nice to see NAO baring its teeth. Apparently they had observer teams out there during the exercise. Anyone happen to bump into them?
There does not appear to be any info on munitions performance but report points out that war stocks did not go, apart from ammo for Firepower demo at end and a few ALMs
There does not appear to be any info on munitions performance but report points out that war stocks did not go, apart from ammo for Firepower demo at end and a few ALMs
Guest
Posts: n/a
SSII Rpt
Trails - I was out there, along with the thousands of others who got a sun tan at the tax-payers expense. I did meet the NAO team and they were very interested in what us 'low level' types had to say. Just out of interest, I was the J3 Watchkeeper that dealt with the AS90 fire and yes it was a shambles, loggie HQ couldn't talk with the wokka types, the unit HQ didn't know the location of the gun (well they did but only to a 10 k square etc etc etc)
The ex itself was excellant, I got the chance to meet a lot of greenand dark blue suited type (i wear the light blue version) and I can honestly say the British forces are the best in the world. We are only let down by those in charge relying on our 'can do' attitude and professionallism
The ex itself was excellant, I got the chance to meet a lot of greenand dark blue suited type (i wear the light blue version) and I can honestly say the British forces are the best in the world. We are only let down by those in charge relying on our 'can do' attitude and professionallism
