RAF Bomb Disposal to be disbanded
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I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Will they go out with a bang?
While there is one school there are distinct lines between tasks. Our EOD team was based 15 miles away. An RN team was despatched from Portsmouth to deal with a mine on a bombing range. Our RAF team dealt with two live shells. Properly, as it was in farm land, it should have been referred to civpol, the fields would have been evacuated, a main road closed and the Army called. Again the shells should not have been destroyed on the bombing range as it was not licenced for that type of disposal.
Provided team are properly located it must be more efficient.
While there is one school there are distinct lines between tasks. Our EOD team was based 15 miles away. An RN team was despatched from Portsmouth to deal with a mine on a bombing range. Our RAF team dealt with two live shells. Properly, as it was in farm land, it should have been referred to civpol, the fields would have been evacuated, a main road closed and the Army called. Again the shells should not have been destroyed on the bombing range as it was not licenced for that type of disposal.
Provided team are properly located it must be more efficient.
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Sensible consolidation is appropriate.
Remember when the RAF had a Marine Branch, as well as its Private Army?
And the RN ... with the RM and Fleet Air Arm?
And the Army ... with it's Air Corps and RCT shipping?
Remember when the RAF had a Marine Branch, as well as its Private Army?
And the RN ... with the RM and Fleet Air Arm?
And the Army ... with it's Air Corps and RCT shipping?
MPN11
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
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LJ ... oh, but what about the traditions/habits!!
There are of course, as we all (should) know, nuances in skill-sets that perhaps are best kept focussed in a particular area.
But ... from a blank sheet of paper, I wonder whether we woukd have ended up as we are?
A shrinking Defence Force does, IMO, demand a review (painful as it might be to vested interests) to “efficiencise” [sorry!] thes duplicated aspects of Defence. Joint Force Harrier (as was) and Joint Helicopter Command are just the beginning. I could offer other options,but I don’t like starting mega arguments on Forums/Fora.
There are of course, as we all (should) know, nuances in skill-sets that perhaps are best kept focussed in a particular area.
But ... from a blank sheet of paper, I wonder whether we woukd have ended up as we are?
A shrinking Defence Force does, IMO, demand a review (painful as it might be to vested interests) to “efficiencise” [sorry!] thes duplicated aspects of Defence. Joint Force Harrier (as was) and Joint Helicopter Command are just the beginning. I could offer other options,but I don’t like starting mega arguments on Forums/Fora.
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No doubt F-35 will become 'integrated', leaving the FAA and RAF to operate helicopters ... oops, got that wrong!
BUT, and this is a serious BUT ... some people will want a life on the ocean waves [if they ever leave port]. while some will prefer a life on a fixed RAF Station [until they spend most of their lives breathing sand]. So recruiting for some ill-defined concept in a youngster's mind will still, possibly, remain a factor. OMG ... I'm getting complicated now ....
BUT, and this is a serious BUT ... some people will want a life on the ocean waves [if they ever leave port]. while some will prefer a life on a fixed RAF Station [until they spend most of their lives breathing sand]. So recruiting for some ill-defined concept in a youngster's mind will still, possibly, remain a factor. OMG ... I'm getting complicated now ....
I guess the hierarchy can give many reasons for disbanding the only bomb disposal unit in the RAF, but I take a more emotional view. Last evening I attended the RAF Bomb Disposal Officers' Reunion Dinner held by the Commander of 5131(BD) Sqn. The theme was celebrating 75 years of continuous RAF BD operation; the current iteration, 5131(BD) Sqn, was stood up in 1995, formed from individual co-located EOD Flights. During the dinner, between courses, individual officers and SNCOs presented vignettes of their experience during operations in Iraq, Kosovo and Afghanistan; a retired officer spoke about the Falkland Islands - he was too modest to mention the QGM he was awarded. If the VSOs who decided to shut down the sqn had been there to hear the stories of courage and resourcefulness maybe they would think otherwise. But as a realist, I doubt it. The Sqn Cdr was visibly upset when he announced the decision, more so in the manner in which it was communicated. As a former Sqn Warrant Officer I still think of 5131 as 'my' sqn and last night I felt immensely proud of the young men who serve today. I am sad about the sqn's demise, but as Mr Vice said last night, they can take the Squadron but they can't take the Badge.
PN. I can discuss Joint Service tasking and where munitions can safely be destroyed, but not on this reply.
PN. I can discuss Joint Service tasking and where munitions can safely be destroyed, but not on this reply.
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I do genuinely feel for those involved, and the skills and courage associated with it. Sadly, tempus fugit.
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MPN11
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
So the RAF Regt didn't "give" the system to the RA, it was just withdrawn from the RAF Regt.
Can't say I agree the Infantry should defend airfields either; much better to have a limited-role force to do that, than try and re-focus an infantry battalion on airfield defence when they may have been Armd Inf in Warrior on the last tour, or even Public Duties. It'd be like saying the RAF should use its SH aircrew for Apaches. Or Apache crew on SH, for that matter.
In some cases, operating in other environments (Land/Sea/Air) is advantageous for a force. I don't think the USMC would give up their "organic air" very easily.
One just needs to find the funding
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Let us not forget the RAF Regt mini-tanks. It was/is all about defending the airfield perimeter, and beyond. I subscribe to the idea of 'specialism', but just wonder whether the back-up infrastructure justifies the costs.
4th Battalion the Blankshires, suitably equipped and trained on a permanent basis, could do the same tasks without the 'baggage' of an RAF Regt Depot and associated MoD or HQ Air staffing.
I know it's heresy, and I apologise, but in the smaller UK Mil we have today there are surely savings to be made.
4th Battalion the Blankshires, suitably equipped and trained on a permanent basis, could do the same tasks without the 'baggage' of an RAF Regt Depot and associated MoD or HQ Air staffing.
I know it's heresy, and I apologise, but in the smaller UK Mil we have today there are surely savings to be made.
At least the RAF Bomb Squad went out with a whimper and not a bang.
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The Army Purple machine sticking it to the RAF Armourer trade again. Cannot have the Crabs having any justification to be paid the same as the Pongo and Matelot bombheads for doing the same job. It is scandelous what has happend to the RAF Armourer trade.
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MPN11
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
i think the RAF lost the plot when they kept the Field Sqns of the RAF Regt but gave the Rapier SHORAD to the Royal Artillery. It should have been the other way around with the Infantry charged with ground-based defence of our airfield and the RAF doing SHORAD. Quite how we have kept the Regt is quite shocking really and we really the UK needs to go back to basics on its military:
1. If it floats on or in the sea then it is Royal Navy - I would include the Royal Marines in that, but no FAA.
2. If it lives in ditches then it is the Army - no Watchkeeper, Wildcat or Apache but get the RAF Regt.
3. If it flies it is Royal Air Force - no Regt.
Nice and simple. Seeing the Army fixed wing assets coming to the RAF and losing the BD to the Army is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion.
1. Merge the RAF into the FAA.
2. Merge the Army into the RM.
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I guess the hierarchy can give many reasons for disbanding the only bomb disposal unit in the RAF, but I take a more emotional view. Last evening I attended the RAF Bomb Disposal Officers' Reunion Dinner held by the Commander of 5131(BD) Sqn. The theme was celebrating 75 years of continuous RAF BD operation; the current iteration, 5131(BD) Sqn, was stood up in 1995, formed from individual co-located EOD Flights. During the dinner, between courses, individual officers and SNCOs presented vignettes of their experience during operations in Iraq, Kosovo and Afghanistan; a retired officer spoke about the Falkland Islands - he was too modest to mention the QGM he was awarded. If the VSOs who decided to shut down the sqn had been there to hear the stories of courage and resourcefulness maybe they would think otherwise. But as a realist, I doubt it. The Sqn Cdr was visibly upset when he announced the decision, more so in the manner in which it was communicated. As a former Sqn Warrant Officer I still think of 5131 as 'my' sqn and last night I felt immensely proud of the young men who serve today. I am sad about the sqn's demise, but as Mr Vice said last night, they can take the Squadron but they can't take the Badge.
PN. I can discuss Joint Service tasking and where munitions can safely be destroyed, but not on this reply.
PN. I can discuss Joint Service tasking and where munitions can safely be destroyed, but not on this reply.
BDR saves lives-period.
Last edited by glad rag; 10th Nov 2018 at 11:27.