Cambridge Spies and vetting experiences
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Then of course there are Secrets and Top Secrets.
Do you think for one moment that Ministers are given access to real secrets? By all means they are custodians of secrets that can be exceptionally dangerous if released to a foreign power. Would we or would we not do this or that, yes they determine that and could betray the trust.
DMPI for a missile or bombing attack, names of agents, how a submarine or aircraft works - none of that detail is necessary for them to do their job. Does the missile work or is the subway serviceable, yes they do need to know. But would Sir Humphrey tell them if they didn't ask?
Do you think for one moment that Ministers are given access to real secrets? By all means they are custodians of secrets that can be exceptionally dangerous if released to a foreign power. Would we or would we not do this or that, yes they determine that and could betray the trust.
DMPI for a missile or bombing attack, names of agents, how a submarine or aircraft works - none of that detail is necessary for them to do their job. Does the missile work or is the subway serviceable, yes they do need to know. But would Sir Humphrey tell them if they didn't ask?
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Well put, PN 
Without wishing to sully the portals of PPRuNe with politics, it would be interesting to know whether the current Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition would be granted a DV clearance in the light of his background. Presumably Prime Ministers (and indeed some other Ministers) need some sort of clearance? Or are they exempt by virtue of being politicians?
Of course, I would expect the Security Services to have a reasonably good idea of who is doing what to whom and so can monitor things from the outside as it were. Although it is interesting that Ministers do have a degree of latitude not extended to others. Boris Johnson used to have dual U.K. US nationality and I believe Jeremy Hunt is married to a Chinese lady. As Foreign Secretary he is also has Ministerial oversight of the Intelligence Agencies. If a Serviceman with similar responsibility were also married to a Chinese lady it’s fair to say he wouldn’t be in that job full stop and would probably be out on his ear as a major security risk. Double standards - not half!
So I was sweating more than a rock ape at a spelling contest
(BTW I hope my spelling is up to scratch).
On a more general point, on the tanker force we had occasional access to TS material, but there was no requirement for us to be PV'd, as NV was deemed sufficient in those circumstances.
Huh? Wherever did you get that daft notion, TtN?
Good bunch in the main - and with a wicked sense of humour. 'Big Dougie' and 'Wee Benny' made our IOT GDT sessions a pleasure at RAFC.
Annual ODT sessions were often brightened up by rock humour. For example the chap who produced a combopen with a knitting needle poking out - and the other who produced a khaki-coloured aerosol from an official-looking polythene bag, which he then discharged in the lecture room, causing those who hadn't brought their respirators into the room to flap about like wet hens. It was a can of Pledge....
Good bunch in the main - and with a wicked sense of humour. 'Big Dougie' and 'Wee Benny' made our IOT GDT sessions a pleasure at RAFC.
Annual ODT sessions were often brightened up by rock humour. For example the chap who produced a combopen with a knitting needle poking out - and the other who produced a khaki-coloured aerosol from an official-looking polythene bag, which he then discharged in the lecture room, causing those who hadn't brought their respirators into the room to flap about like wet hens. It was a can of Pledge....
Of course, Need-to-know extends upwards and sideways, as well as downwards. Pollies, just as everyone else, only have need to know sufficient to be informed about that which they,... need to know! 
OAP
OAP
What they don't know....they cannot leak!
Not that a politician would ever talk out of school would they!
Not that a politician would ever talk out of school would they!
Avoid imitations
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I think it was the Provost Marshal himself that blew one character.
Do you recall the recent Chequers Summit? So concerned was the PM about leaks that Ministerial aides were excluded and all phones were kept outside the discussion to prevent leaks. I can’t remember exactly when the first leaks as to what were being considered came out - before or after their dinner....
As Sir Humphrey noted, the Ship of State is the only ship that leaks from the top. If politicians had to get clearances in the same way that many service personnel do, frankly I doubt they’d all get through.
Thread Starter
I think it was the Provost Marshal himself that blew one character.
Really?
I say! This isn't ARRSE you know!
Really?
I say! This isn't ARRSE you know!
Interesting side note on Politicians and Clearances.....the US President does not have a Security Clearance and does not undergo a Background Investigation as such.
The President is the Final Clearance Authority for all matters.....the President is free to de-classify anything at anytime for any reason.
That does not mean one would sit down with a Whisky and with a stroke of the Pen de-classify something and there is a formal procedure that is followed to facilitate the President's decision.
Lots of power emanates from the Oval Office in the White House.
The President is the Final Clearance Authority for all matters.....the President is free to de-classify anything at anytime for any reason.
That does not mean one would sit down with a Whisky and with a stroke of the Pen de-classify something and there is a formal procedure that is followed to facilitate the President's decision.
Lots of power emanates from the Oval Office in the White House.
If I recall correctly Ministers aren’t DV’d as it is now. Putting aside the practicalities that the length of time taken to go through the process is sometimes longer than your average ministerial tenure, the issue is that one of Parliamentary precedence. By putting them through a formal clearance process it may be seen that a democratically elected Minister is being held to account by administrative process. I remember Penny Mordaunt visiting my last unit and at the time she was the only Minister to hold a security clearance on account of her being Lt (RNR) Morduant.
Of course, I would expect the Security Services to have a reasonably good idea of who is doing what to whom and so can monitor things from the outside as it were. Although it is interesting that Ministers do have a degree of latitude not extended to others. Boris Johnson used to have dual U.K. US nationality and I believe Jeremy Hunt is married to a Chinese lady. As Foreign Secretary he is also has Ministerial oversight of the Intelligence Agencies. If a Serviceman with similar responsibility were also married to a Chinese lady it’s fair to say he wouldn’t be in that job full stop and would probably be out on his ear as a major security risk. Double standards - not half!
Minor but important correction to an earlier poster: MPs are democratically elected; ministers are appointed by the PM, typically (but not exclusively) from the body of MPs. It would be perfectly in order for the PM to take into account any security issues raised by administrators when selecting ministers.
The only ministerial post effectively (pedants: not literally) subject to direct democracy is the PM, and admittedly there is not much administrators can do about a security risk taking that office. A bit of Sir Humphrey-esque foot-dragging and some judicious leaking of discrediting material, perhaps...
The only ministerial post effectively (pedants: not literally) subject to direct democracy is the PM, and admittedly there is not much administrators can do about a security risk taking that office. A bit of Sir Humphrey-esque foot-dragging and some judicious leaking of discrediting material, perhaps...
Melchett01
I can think of one officer, squadron commander, later station commander and who went on to hold a 1 star NATO appointment, who was married to a Chinese lady. As far as I know he never suffered from a DV/PV point of view on account of this.
I can think of one officer, squadron commander, later station commander and who went on to hold a 1 star NATO appointment, who was married to a Chinese lady. As far as I know he never suffered from a DV/PV point of view on account of this.
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Another little tale of applying for vetting, the form I completed asked me to list all offenses I had been charged with, both military and civil. Apart from a civilian parking ticket my military record had been almost spotless but I thought I'd best declare the minor blemishes that my data protection printout listed. I submitted the form and waited for a phone call from the vetting office in case there was anything I'd missed. A couple of weeks passed, and I received a call from a rather well spoken lady who said she had checked my form and there was only one question and could I explain what exactly "failing to conduct a domestic evening to the required standard" was, and why did I do it twice?
I explained the circumstances, there was a short period on silence before "I see, well I can't see that being an issue in this case"
I explained the circumstances, there was a short period on silence before "I see, well I can't see that being an issue in this case"
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ogre, given that you had to resort to a Data readout I wonder why they don't populate the form from available data and then ask you to verify and amplify. While most of us can remember a broad outline of our lives many, I am sure, can't remember the fine detail.
As far as banking details for instance, I was persuaded to have a go for PPI compensation though I am certain I am not eligible. I duly submitted various credit card details and some time later remembered some more. So far no credit card company has admitted to my having an account with them. That even applies to the company whose card I have used for years and still use.
As far as banking details for instance, I was persuaded to have a go for PPI compensation though I am certain I am not eligible. I duly submitted various credit card details and some time later remembered some more. So far no credit card company has admitted to my having an account with them. That even applies to the company whose card I have used for years and still use.
On the PPI issue, clearing stuff out prior to a house move I found old mortgage documents, so I went on each mortgage provider web site in turn and filed a PPI claim, whether I recalled being on PPI or not. So far I am £1200 to the good, with a couple of claims pending. Don't give any credence to the sharks who offer to do it for you, very easy to do oneself
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
MPs are democratically elected; ministers are appointed by the PM
The PM can and does appoint numerous other ministers of state, undersecretaries etc - but they aren't cabinet minsters in the formal sense.
Sorry for the digression.
personally I always avoided any post requiring a DV clearance like the plague. It wasn't required for any job i wanted - and meant you could be collared to be, or stand-in for, the crypto custodian and have to deal with all the multiple daily and monthly crypto changes required in the ops room and equipment. No thank you.
After my FCO interview a couple of years ago when my soul was layed bare, I incautiously asked the vetting officer about her background. She responded simply with “impeccable”.