RAF / RN Chinagraph Pencils (Cold War era) for Kneeboards
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 244
Likes: 17
From: UK
I thought they came from Pittards, Beags, in Yeo-vile.
I'm surprised the kipper fleet had any space in their flight suits for chinagraphs. I thought the priority for them was: spoon, fork, knife, toothbrush, johnny tube.......
Standard torch at EGUW circa '72 was:
......clipped in the cleavage of your mae west.
I'm surprised the kipper fleet had any space in their flight suits for chinagraphs. I thought the priority for them was: spoon, fork, knife, toothbrush, johnny tube.......
Standard torch at EGUW circa '72 was:
......clipped in the cleavage of your mae west.
Last edited by Minnie Burner; 23rd September 2018 at 16:38.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 302
Likes: 12
From: EGDL
I thought they came from Piitards, Beags, in Yeo-vile.
I'm surprised the kipper fleet had any space in their flight suits for chinagraphs. I thought the priority for them was: spoon, fork, knife, toothbrush, johnny tube.......
Standard torch at EGUW circa '72 was:
......clipped in the cleavage of your mae west.
I'm surprised the kipper fleet had any space in their flight suits for chinagraphs. I thought the priority for them was: spoon, fork, knife, toothbrush, johnny tube.......
Standard torch at EGUW circa '72 was:
......clipped in the cleavage of your mae west.
Bobby Dazzler with SCREWS to stop it Fodding itself (unless the screws fall out and become even more elusive FOD!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
The yellow 'bobby dazzler' is an intrinsically safe/ explosion-proofed torch for use in hazardous atmospheres- I used to use them when I was Fire Officer. Good to know that you wouldn't go bang when you turn the torch on, but a bugger to change the old Queen's Green batteries, which never seemed to last long...
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 584
Likes: 34
From: Threshold 06
On another (but still AEA related) tack, in the 90s Harrier mates engaged in the Kosovo nastiness were complaining that the issue flying boots were not man enough to cope with the rigours of a cold weather Survival situation.
Fair enough! My job, as I saw it, in the EA was to try and get the boys going over the top, what they needed. Often this meant we used some innovative ways to get stuff authorised without entering the MoD procurement maze and firing the 9lb chicken at it!
Several alternative options were trialled for a nominal 6 months under an authorised Special Trial Fit (STF) for "extreme cold weather boots" The options had varying degrees of success, but one of the variants had a Gortex sock insert permanently stitched inside. I don't know which one (if any) won but.....
The following summer, several months after the trial had finished (and the equipment and authorisation supposedly withdrawn) My AD burst into our office clutching the obligatory Friday afternoon Air Incident Signal. Uttering his usual mantra of "they have a problem, what are you going to do about it" He demanded immediate answers of course as the incident was describing how a Harrier Jock had suffered from continual overheating of the feet and it eventually transpired that his complaint was that his boots were clearly unsuitable for the summer and had subjected him to unnecessary stress during flight. So bad were they that he had cut the insert out.
Oh, how we laughed 😂
Fair enough! My job, as I saw it, in the EA was to try and get the boys going over the top, what they needed. Often this meant we used some innovative ways to get stuff authorised without entering the MoD procurement maze and firing the 9lb chicken at it!
Several alternative options were trialled for a nominal 6 months under an authorised Special Trial Fit (STF) for "extreme cold weather boots" The options had varying degrees of success, but one of the variants had a Gortex sock insert permanently stitched inside. I don't know which one (if any) won but.....
The following summer, several months after the trial had finished (and the equipment and authorisation supposedly withdrawn) My AD burst into our office clutching the obligatory Friday afternoon Air Incident Signal. Uttering his usual mantra of "they have a problem, what are you going to do about it" He demanded immediate answers of course as the incident was describing how a Harrier Jock had suffered from continual overheating of the feet and it eventually transpired that his complaint was that his boots were clearly unsuitable for the summer and had subjected him to unnecessary stress during flight. So bad were they that he had cut the insert out.
Oh, how we laughed 😂
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 584
Likes: 34
From: Threshold 06
Cape Leather gloves were another procurement balls-up! In the late '80s, some political correcto queried why they were known as 'Cape' leather. "They must come from the Cape of Seth Efrika", he mused. This was before they let Mandela out, so there was concern that MoD might be buying equipment from the nasty apartheid people....
So the supplier was changed; instead of the pristine white (or rufty-tufty SH green), we began to get inferior light grey things, probably made from recycled Etruscan goat scrotums, which lasted barely a week before they ripped...
Common sense later prevailed and we went back to the previous type!
So the supplier was changed; instead of the pristine white (or rufty-tufty SH green), we began to get inferior light grey things, probably made from recycled Etruscan goat scrotums, which lasted barely a week before they ripped...
Common sense later prevailed and we went back to the previous type!
Sadly, I am on my last pair of whites but I have a green set remaining that will probably see me out...
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 628
Likes: 11
From: UK
Cigarette Ash,
I’ve read most of this thread and may have missed it..but
When smoking was prevalent everywhere - top of climb on the Valiant for instance - cigarette ash was often just the right level of abrasive for removing chinagraph, in Sqn Ops, Station Ops and in the aircraft itself.
Dip a rag in the ashtray and wipe - remember it well !
I’ve read most of this thread and may have missed it..but
When smoking was prevalent everywhere - top of climb on the Valiant for instance - cigarette ash was often just the right level of abrasive for removing chinagraph, in Sqn Ops, Station Ops and in the aircraft itself.
Dip a rag in the ashtray and wipe - remember it well !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 16,699
Likes: 54
From: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 58
From: Newcastle Upon Tyne
"Sadly, I am on my last pair of whites but I have a green set remaining that will probably see me out..."
Careful oldmansquipper, there was someone on a facey page warning about disclosing old crimes! ;-)
Careful oldmansquipper, there was someone on a facey page warning about disclosing old crimes! ;-)
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 636
From: Great South East, tired and retired
In the Hueys in Oz during the 70s, we still operated under full reporting when in civil airspace. Even VFR. Flight plans, accuracy to within 2 mins of a reporting point, or else amend it, clearances, blah blah. (Luckily Dick Smith changed all this when he took over CA$A).
As a result, we would write the flight plan on the Huey window in chinagraph, with reporting points, time intervals, estimates, amendments, clearances, squawk codes (though they were only used in some mil airspace.) The whole window on the copilot side would fill with chinagraph, and on a hot day the "lead" would melt in the pen and make a mess in the sleeve pocket and dribble on the window. On a long positioning flight, there would be a lot of writing on the window, removed with the back of the glove to make a nice colourful smear. Great for low sun angles.
I once saw that some wag had written "This window is in its third edition" in very neat writing. And they were all Staedtlers, inch-long coloured plastic rotating top, shiny clip, never had a string.
As a result, we would write the flight plan on the Huey window in chinagraph, with reporting points, time intervals, estimates, amendments, clearances, squawk codes (though they were only used in some mil airspace.) The whole window on the copilot side would fill with chinagraph, and on a hot day the "lead" would melt in the pen and make a mess in the sleeve pocket and dribble on the window. On a long positioning flight, there would be a lot of writing on the window, removed with the back of the glove to make a nice colourful smear. Great for low sun angles.
I once saw that some wag had written "This window is in its third edition" in very neat writing. And they were all Staedtlers, inch-long coloured plastic rotating top, shiny clip, never had a string.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: The Far Side of The Moon
So after looking around at home I cannot find my box of leads, so after a bit off googling came across a supplier still selling pencils and refils. https://www.listo.com/marking-pencils.html
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 791
Likes: 49
From: EGLD
A mod came out in the mid 90s for chinagraphs that had us drilling a hole in the winder end, inserting a key ring and then attaching white elastic to the ring. Elastic also stiched on to one end of the flying suit pocket so that Bloggs couldn’t loose their pencil. This only worked if Bloggs could get more than one chinagraph.. supplies dried up in mid 2000s. Oldmansquipper, the Harrier pro boots were great thanks 😜.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 67
Likes: 13
From: Leicestershire, UK
I'm sure I have one of these elastic lanyards somewhere, if I can find it, I'll photograph it to see if it's what you recall. Would suit a later green flying suit being a 90's mod though...
Cheers, Scott
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: N London
I found mine as FOD down the back of an OCU Buccaneer bang seat, not a UK one but a Skilcraft US one. Anyhow, 40 years later I still use it. It is on my kneepad that I use in the mighty PA28-181. I also use it to write routes on the inside of the winscreen when i am on a long journey. So if you get into a hire car with greasy marks on the top corner it may have ben mine. The GPS does a good job but does not see the big picture and hence the Chinagraph notes. I have a box of leads (blue) now 50% depleated so should just last me out.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 67
Likes: 13
From: Leicestershire, UK
During my time volunteering working on preserved Lightnings XS452 and XS458 at Cranfield, I found two FOD screwdrivers, one stuck down behind the seats, the other lodged in one of the the engine bays. Can't recall if it was 452 or 458 or both, but interesting to find nevertheless!
Cheers, Scott
Cheers, Scott
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 584
Likes: 34
From: Threshold 06
honest injun.
(Glad to see you are monitoring the 'Ancients' 👍
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 278
Likes: 24
From: S W France
In COMBRITBOR HQ in Brunei in Nov 1962 it was decreed that for security reasons we were no longer to refer to aircraft types or airfields in clear, but to use codewords.
The airfields were to be colour coded - Black One, Brown Two etc.
We were using the ubiquitous Perspex and Chinagraph Maps and Wallboards. The Chinagraph colours we had were Red, White and Blue ( which were allocated to Kuching for the airfields in Sarawak ) as well as Black and Yellow. We needed more colours, by careful use of two colours, one on top of another, I was able to produce Green(Blue and Yellow), Orange(Red and Yellow), Brown(Black and Yellow) as well as Purple(Red and Blue). It looked a bit messy but it worked.
The airfields were to be colour coded - Black One, Brown Two etc.
We were using the ubiquitous Perspex and Chinagraph Maps and Wallboards. The Chinagraph colours we had were Red, White and Blue ( which were allocated to Kuching for the airfields in Sarawak ) as well as Black and Yellow. We needed more colours, by careful use of two colours, one on top of another, I was able to produce Green(Blue and Yellow), Orange(Red and Yellow), Brown(Black and Yellow) as well as Purple(Red and Blue). It looked a bit messy but it worked.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,555
Likes: 0
From: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
When old man Parry retired as Satco Valley in 1974, I cleared out his desk the day after his leaving do. John Lawes was driving from Tengah to Valley, in a Volvo with his wife and three kids to take up the post.
There were hundreds of them in his drawer. He had been in the habit of asking Sgt. Mitchell to provide him with one, on almost any occasion.
Most of them were returned to the Admin Office to be distributed as required, on production to Mitch, of a real need for it.
About a year later I was posted to Northern and didn't need one as the T82 tracked with store dots, then I went to Border and had to learn to write sideways, from both sides, on a huge flat top display. Writing backwards was easy, and I never had to do it apart from at Shawbury, but sideways...
I once had a day out from valley with the AAC (if the good lord had intended the army to fly, She would have made the sky brown) and the driver wrote times on the inside of the Souix bubble with his Chinagraph. I got him a few boxes of various coloured refills as payment for the day out in LFA10.
Nowadays I use a Bic ballpoint, which I have dipped in glue and wrapped a string around, then tied the string to my kneeboard.
There were hundreds of them in his drawer. He had been in the habit of asking Sgt. Mitchell to provide him with one, on almost any occasion.
Most of them were returned to the Admin Office to be distributed as required, on production to Mitch, of a real need for it.
About a year later I was posted to Northern and didn't need one as the T82 tracked with store dots, then I went to Border and had to learn to write sideways, from both sides, on a huge flat top display. Writing backwards was easy, and I never had to do it apart from at Shawbury, but sideways...
I once had a day out from valley with the AAC (if the good lord had intended the army to fly, She would have made the sky brown) and the driver wrote times on the inside of the Souix bubble with his Chinagraph. I got him a few boxes of various coloured refills as payment for the day out in LFA10.
Nowadays I use a Bic ballpoint, which I have dipped in glue and wrapped a string around, then tied the string to my kneeboard.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
From: South East Asia
We're up to Post #100 and still no one has mentioned how absolutely essential a chinagraph pencil was when performing tracking of helicopter main rotor blades after maintenance. Each blade tip was liberally marked with a different colour chinagraph, then with the rotors turning at normal RPM, a "tracking flag" was slowly - very slowly - moved to gently "kiss" each blade tip in turn. This left a coloured mark on the flag corresponding to the vertical position of each blade relative to the others. From this adjustments could be made to get the blades "in-track" which helped, but didn't guarantee, that the helicopter would be smooth in flight.